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Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:38 am

Is there anyone who can tell me if the Type 4 enigines ( 1.7, 1.8, 2.0) have unique oilpumps or not?

Some shops sell specific pumps for type 4, many shops dont list any pumps for type 4. Untill now nobody can explain the differences.

Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:37 am

The original oil pump is a unique design and NLA (no longer available) although you might find a rebuilt. If old pump still specs out, I'd continue to run it.

Many people adapt a Type I pump. It works but requires some minor modification and carries some risk. I had one nearly destroy my engine when the idle shaft came loose.

Afaik Melling steel pumps are a reasonable choice. Although they are a dissimilar metal and some claim that leads to a poor fit when hot.

CB performance sells a pump specifically for the type IV and it looks goods but I have no experience with it. They lock the idle shaft to it can't come loose like mine did.

Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:07 am

it is a sore point with all of us. I want to say there was a thread here a couple months ago where someone had trouble with the fit on that CB T4 pump.

The way I solved it was to buy a nos pump from Europe where they pop up from time to time. Usually the price ends up being around $450. I also collected about 10 - 12 used T4 pumps and inspected each for wear. The ones that were really worn went into scrap. The ones that were still acceptable went to one of our VW machinists in NM who made a jig to rebuild them. He did I think 7 for me and we tossed one more he didn't like the wear. I then priced them at $129 each which is only what I had in them with no profit after I paid Phil and they were all gone in about a week to 10 days except one I kept as my spare. You could do something like that but Phil no longer works on them since his health declined. The problem on rebuilding them is that to make any money both the machinist and the person selling them need to be able to sell them for around $250. Most people won't spend that kind of money so no one truly rebuilds them back to factory specs.

If I were doing this again like you I would buy as many cores as I can afford, clean them. measure them for wear, toss the out of spec ones, re o-ring them and sell what was left. Then keep the very best one for my engine.

Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:09 am

Welcome to TheSamba!

Type I oil pumps

Type IV oil pump, note the 4 M6 nuts.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7480704#7480704

The Type IV oil pumps are NLA (no longer available). The only replacement it a modified Type I oil pump. There have been reports that the Type I pump is smaller in diameter and it is recommended to o-ring the body diameter, inlet and outlet ports.
Left Type IV / Melling Type I Modified to fit in a Type IV oil pump

http://www.volksbolts.com/faq/OilPump.htm

New pumps
https://www.google.com/search?q=MELLING+30mm+Cast+...p;ie=UTF-8

Hope this helps
Tcash

Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:35 am

This one is offered also. I don't know the company or the condition of the pump. Some places say they have something when they don't. But you can call if you are interested. $485. Part number is 021115105A

http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Vanagon/Engine/151/1

Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:34 am

First of all: thanks for all the replies! Thats what makes a wonderful community like the Aircooled stand out!

Thats a lot of information! The verdict is: there is no real solution for Type 4 enigines....

The original pump has to be pretty modified if you have a different camshaft. The bolts will touch the pump. Even with an original cam the original pump is harder and harder to find, against skyhigh prices...

The replacements like a steel Melling will give more pressure wich can make problems with the thicker (20w50)oil many people use. Oil is pumped in the engine trough the pressure valve and makes you lose HP. Thinner oil it is then.. but still.

A Type 1 pump has shorter gears wich gives you lower pressure... Some people talk of loose idle shafts wich can cause serious problems.

Maybe I am not reading it right but can someone tell me what exactly the 'modifications' are on a type 1 pump?

Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:39 am

Quote: he original pump has to be pretty modified if you have a different camshaft. The bolts will touch the pump. Even with an original cam the original pump is harder and harder to find, against skyhigh prices...

The original pump works fine with the special bolts that come with a webcam camshaft and probably others. The gear must be milled for the special bolts, and that also allows the bolt head to sit flat. You don't want to put a bolt up against a domed irregular surface.

As to price - need to rethink your expectations. You fell in love with and bought a 40 year old car. Just because a lot of folks have them doesn't make them inexpensive to repair. There is a reason some of the owners are selling their buses around $30,000 - $35,000 now. It costs that to properly restore one. Yes you can make it drivable for less but it won't be as reliable as if it was done right. Your solution is to find a good used pump with minimal wear or find a new one in Europe. You might try a CB pump and see how it works - it might be Ok but look at some threads here to be sure. Just because I recall someone having some kind of problem doesn't guarantee I am correct. Maybe someone else with time on their hands can find that thread.

Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:15 am

jaxxer wrote:

The replacements like a steel Melling will give more pressure wich can make problems with the thicker (20w50)oil many people use. Oil is pumped in the engine trough the pressure valve and makes you lose HP. Thinner oil it is then.. but still.

A Type 1 pump has shorter gears wich gives you lower pressure... Some people talk of loose idle shafts wich can cause serious problems.

Maybe I am not reading it right but can someone tell me what exactly the 'modifications' are on a type 1 pump?

A stock type 4 pump has 26mm gears. Same as most type 1 pumps. Works fine but if your engine is a bit "loose" a 30mm pump gets the pressure back where it needs to be. Many experienced builders run 30mm pumps and set the bearing clearances towards the loose end for more oil flow. The old type 1 pumps where 21mm and that's too short. IMHO a 30 mm pump is a good choice and a 26mm pump is adequate. If you install a 30mm pump and the pressure is too high, you can always run thinner oil. If you install a 26mm pump and the pressure is too low, you are stuck with it. I run a custom made type 4 pump with 30mm gears, 5w50 oil, and my pressure is right where I want it to be. With a 26mm Type I Shadek pump it was too low.

The type I pumps have less clearance from the cam bolts. The modification involves pressing the idle shaft deeper into the pump then milling/filling away the raised boss that supports the idle shaft. This gives more clearance but also increases the chances the idle shaft gets loose and walks.

Read about my oil pump saga with the loose shaft here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=637884&highlight=

Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:54 am

FWIW, Type 4 pumps have problems with the idle shaft working loose as well. Depending on the pump, you can shorten the shaft a bit so you can do a better peening job.