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Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:15 pm

I just got a new engine! Well, more like new used. I just swapped it for my parts bus. I do have a few questions about it. there is an extra tube right next to the heater box on the right side. I cant fit the tin I have over it. There is a vw of Canada sticker on the case. Does that have somthing to do with it? There is also this extra contraption on the exuast manifold. it is in a little pipe on the left side. it is stuck on the end of that. It has an opening on each side.

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Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:25 pm

The "extra" tube in the first pic is a tube to collect warm air for the intake for when its cold out to help prevent carb icing and such. It takes a different piece of rear tin with a 3rd large hole in it. I don't know what the 2nd picture is of? Some sort of EGR or something?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:30 pm

Is the right tin hard to find?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:42 pm

langsmer wrote: Is the right tin hard to find?

Depends on where you live I guess...
I built a new motor a while back and couldn't for the life of me find all the German Tin I needed!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:59 pm

does anybody have one of these tins?

Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:58 pm

The little heater pipe on the right I've never seen cast like that; it's neat. Usually there's a pressed steel one on the left exhaust stud with corresponding cylinder tin piece. In Canada it must have been made more extreme. Is it part of the heater box itself or free from it? It is supposed to go to the air cleaner so you'd need a late '63 to '65 bus breastplate or just cut the hole and put in the grommet. The other contraption is an "STP Device" made by STP. Now it's called an EGR or exhaust gas recirculator. A fancy way af saying "put putrid stuff where it isn't supposed to be so we can feel like we've cleaned the Earth a little". I don't know if they are still in business but they made all kinds of auto stuff. They're best known for a goo that you could put in an old engine to stop blowby. The "STP Device was mandated by California (I don't know about Canada) as a smog device but was never really required by law. Most smog certificates were done by Hatchets that thought they knew the laws. Get rid of it and try to fix the hole as best you can. More engines of all makes were trashed by STP Devices than can be imagined.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:18 pm

That double tube air preheat tube can easily be removed and replaced with a single tube. I bent and rivited a reducer so it will attach to the air cleaner. It gets cold here. Back down to 12 degrees tonight.
Pretty cool, that they made a set up for extreme cold. so simple yet effective.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:01 am

that extra contraption is inded an egr valve assembly.
i took some pics of an NOS egr set up, made by grancor. pics in the gallery:
http://thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=107655
http://thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=107654
http://thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=107653
http://thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=107652

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:15 am

It appears that one hose would run from the output side of the valve to that plate the fits between the carb and the intake manifold. This would put exhaust gases into the intake after the carb. Then, the other hose would run from the vacuum port of the valve to? In this picture http://thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/191815.jpg towards the upper left there is a black 90 degree elbow you would install somewhere to give the valve a vacuum signal. Do you have that kit Hazetguy? If so, where do the instructions tell you to install that elbow?

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:37 pm

the kit is at the shop, i can look tomorrow. i have some stock oil bath air filters that have a similar fitting on the top of the air filter, maybe to suck the exhaust back into the carb?

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:40 pm

Should I keep it?

Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:54 pm

That heater advance tube terminates at a point where the warm air that has just cooled the cylinders can be sucked up to the air cleaner. Those are standard issue up here. They are separate from the heater box. I have a piece of that tin, but I am using it on my engine. I can e-mail you a picture of it if you want, but I have no way to post it here. The air cleaner has a pipe the same size, and the same size hose as runs from the shroud to the heater box connects the heater advance to the air cleaner.

8)

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:15 pm

hazetguy wrote: the kit is at the shop, i can look tomorrow. i have some stock oil bath air filters that have a similar fitting on the top of the air filter, maybe to suck the exhaust back into the carb?

I doubt they would do that unless someone hooked it up wrong. Exhaust gas should be put into the intake after the carburetor, or throttle plates for a number of different reasons. It may be a crude early EGR system, but they all have the same theory. I'm just curious how they metered the exhaust gas. You don't want that valve on all the way when you're idling... so I imagine one of those ports on the valve is a vacuum signal port. I just wonder where they take the vacuum from the engine. Manifold vacuum is the way to go, but that 90 degree elbow pictured in the kit and the size of he hose/ports makes me think they went before the carb :?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:45 pm

i don't want to say "i told you so", but, i told you so. :lol: the exception is a bus with a governor, and that is even more scary when they tell you to drill into the governor!
this also confirms the reason i find so many really nice original air filters out here in california, that are ruined by this stupid plastic elbow being installed in them.
here are some pics of the instructions and the hose routing, and a *bonus* pics of a 'ruined' bus air filter top.
http://thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=107917
http://thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=107915
http://thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=107914
http://thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=107913

Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:58 pm

Thanks for the extra pics! Thats interesting. That fitting they put in the air cleaner appears to be the vacuum signal for the egr valve. They dump the exhaust into that plate that you fit underneath the carb, or into the governor :shock: How much it dumps into the intake appears to depend on load (vacuum signal from air filter). I can't believe they tell you to drill into the governor. I'd rather put a fitting in the neck of the intake manifold. From what I can read that seems to be how it works. Thanks for digging that stuff up Jon. Too bad you see so many wrecked air cleaners :(

Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:22 pm

Quote: Too bad you see so many wrecked air cleaners

no problem on the info on the egr, now everyone can know what that junk is. i had never seen an NOS one, so the info just makes all those weird manifolds and screwed up air cleaners make more sense.
yeah, it sucks about the air cleaners. i think i have 4 messed up ones in the back yard right now! :( i just can't bring myself to recycle them.