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Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:20 pm

As brake components are almost impossible to find and very expensive, I am considering putting my 63 notch on the very clean pan of a 70 fastback that I have, (fastback body is very rough and rusty)just to get it on the road, for a daily driver, and keep the stock pan until such a time when I can collect all the brake components. Has anyone done this,? I apologise if this has already been covered before, but your experiences would be of great help. Thanks

Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:48 pm

You could switch the front beam instead of the entire pan and build up a mint stock beam in your garage as time and money allows...

Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:25 pm

Are they that interchangeable? I would still have to deal with rear brakes and cyclinders etc. What would you suggest there?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:55 am

The issue you'll have with the 70 pan is there are no frame horns to mount the trans/engine like your 63. The 70 pan uses a bar across the back of the engine that attaches to the body. Your 63 Notch doesn't have the body mounts. You will be able to look at your Fasty to see this.

Switching the pan to get brakes seems goofy. It's a lot more work than you think. Like Everett said, switch the beam.

Is your 63 pan otherwise in good shape?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:09 am

If you weld in the IRS adapter brackets, you should be able to switch the transmission, axles, spring plates and trailing arms (and brakes) to the early car.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:09 am

Or he can get the 70 pan and remove the rear IRS assembly and replace it with the swing axle. If you are doing all this for brakes and not to fix the pan, dont! You will be doing unnessary work. All the brake components to make the car 4 lug are bolt-ons to your exsisting suspention. Alot of early pinwheel T3 5 lug has been popping up latley, but yeah it can get spendy. Put some 4 lug stuff on to maker run and slowly collect the correct stuff. Unless you plan to lower and modify, then leave the stock stuff to the purists :roll: :wink:

Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:34 am

actually the existing pan is really good, so it is only a concern I have for the brakes that had me thinking of switching pans. But if I can bolt up the 4 lug brake components that would be great. Would it still be necessary to exchange the front beam too? Anything special to be aware of when doing the swap, both front and rear? That sounds a lot more efficient than swapping pans.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:47 am

What's wrong with your front brakes? I think that wheel cylinders (maybe not new) and brake shoes are both available for early cars.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:32 pm

First off, yeah what is wrong with what you have? Second, the 4 lug swap for the front you need ball joints out( spindel, disk, rotor and soft brake line) Rears are backing plate out (drums, innards and soft line) And remember what year 4 lug stuff it is for replacement parts.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:14 pm

the previous owner told me that the wheel cylinders have been leaking bacly and the shoes were totally worn. He had tried to find replacement wheel cylinders and was unsuccessful. Hence the thought that I could transfer pans while rounding up the brake components. Sounds like that is more work than I thought, and not without its considerable challenges as well, ie:motor mounting. Seems like the bolting on of later brake components is possible with maybe far less trouble in the mean time. I will consider that option, as I have several 1970 type 3 cars I could use for parts..... 3 squarebacks and 3 fastbacks. Will the rear brake components ie: backing p lates and lines fit straight up? For the master cylinder I think we used a beetle master cylinder with a type 3 push rod, I can't remember the year. I will find out. I have heard that the early 60's brake components are the tough ones to find, no?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:27 pm

Well NOS stuff is hard to find but does come available. Right now there is nos fron 22mm slave cylinders for sale in the samba classys. Correct for your car. Pads can be re-shoed no problem for cheap. If your slave cylinders are rebuildable then you save $ there. Most times when cylinders leak its because the shoes do not get periodicaly adjusted. Thus causing the cylinder to push furthor than its wear zone causing it to leak. I had this happen on my 63 front. I took it apart, cleaned it all up, reasembled it adjusted properly and it now works and stops like a champ! Make sure you know whats going on with the original stuff before you take the step to just replace it all. If in the end you you still want to replace it then it sounds like you have a good supply. I would also be more than happy to buy the old stuff as well to help difer any of your costs and to possibly keep this old stuff going.

OR

http://classicvw.org/gallery/notchboy/s_9th_013?full=1

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:39 pm

dickie wrote: actually the existing pan is really good, so it is only a concern I have for the brakes that had me thinking of switching pans. But if I can bolt up the 4 lug brake components that would be great. Would it still be necessary to exchange the front beam too? Anything special to be aware of when doing the swap, both front and rear? That sounds a lot more efficient than swapping pans.

Swap the front beam and master cylinder to get that part upgraded. Swap the rear drums and backing plates over, then you're all set. Doing it this way is basically all bolt on (except for the master cylinder change, because you need to add either a "T" or another fill line). This is a very good upgrade (pisses off the purists too :twisted: ), and if the car is to be a driver, very worthwhile too. That being said, my 65 Notch is sitting on a 70 pan. It has the IRS in the rear (added the engine hanger brackets to the body), and the car is a 3 season driver (too damn much road salt for winter use :evil: ). I wouldn't hesitate to do it again either. My son's 65 Roadster also got a dual circuit master cylider swap to it along with the 4 lug conversion, and it was actually pretty easy. 8) I hope this helps.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:40 pm

good advice all around. I think I will do the swap of components for now, as much as I would like to keep the wide 5's. And I will explore the idea of adding the motor mounting brackets/hangers so as to maybe later swap to the later IRS pan too. It would make a sweeter ride too,....purists?...what can you say. Notchboy, I will keep you in mind for the parts for sure. I love the visor on your notch! Where did you get it? When I figure out how to post some pics, I will. Thanks everyone.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:43 pm

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=94508

There are the "Rare" wheel cylinders you cant find. Reasonably priced too.

Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:04 pm

Its hard to piss off "me" the purist :twisted: Bob knows Ive been down the road you are traveling, before I was saved! :P Especialy when Im telling you how to do the debotchery :wink: :shock: :lol: :lol: As far as the visor, they are on ebay all the time for buy it now $165. Great quality made visors too. Ive had the real OE ones and I think the new ones are better and worth every penny :vw: Let me know when and if you want to let the parts go. Ive been collecting early brake stuff as of late. :ts:

Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:55 pm

notchboy wrote: Its hard to piss off "me" the purist :twisted: Bob knows Ive been down the road you are traveling, before I was saved! :P Especialy when Im telling you how to do the debotchery :wink: :shock: :lol: :lol: :ts:

Just giving you a hard time Jason. :D There are other "purists" out there besides you too. :shock: :D

Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:03 pm

Yeah I know. More Greys than anything else.