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Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:25 am

I posted a question about setting my 70 Beetle up to run on the dunes in Michigan, and got good informative responses to what I need to do. After alot of thought it can to me that I would if possible like to build my car in a class 10 (stock or close to it steel body, full fenders, etc.) style rather than a Baja. Because I think that a lifted full body VW looks so cool, not that Bajas aren't cool too and I still may do that if this idea wont work. My question is this, can I build a class 10 style car that will be capable of getting me through the sand and dunes at Michigan as well as if I made it a cheap baja, or will the fenders limit my tire/wheelsize/style and keep me from getting through? I plan on indexing the rear torsion arms, and turning the front beam tubes to get maximum lift and suspension travel from the stock components. I would also like to do a 3 inch body lift for extra tire clearance. upgrade shocks, and tires/wheels, then just freshen up the car and sand proof it. DO you guys think it'll work. My dad hung out with a guy the a VW single cab pickup that was completly stock with the exception that he had airplane wheels adapted to fit on his vw and he cruised on the beach all the time so I think theres hope. Any input or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:51 am

If am pretty sure you are talking about a class 11 not a class 10. This is a class 11 style car:

A class 10 car is a unlimited suspension rail with a limit of 1650cc engine.

I have driven my car in the dunes at Buttercup,CA. My car is way too heavy, and the drivetrain is stock(1600sp and 3.88 ring and pinion trans). I did ok but I know what my car can and cannot do. So my dune driving is pretty limited. If I were to use my car mainly for the dunes, then I would trim as much metal as I could. I also have a Baja Bug, and I take that car to the dunes alot, but my limiting factor is the drive train,(1600sp with a 4.12 ring and pinion). I aslo do not run paddles, I just air the tires down.

I had a friend that took his Baja anywhere our rail went. He was a helluva driver. I had never seen a baja go the places he did out in the dunes. This was a run of the mill baja with a 7 piece kit, stock gas tank. He was running a 1600dp with a turbo on it, and a stock swingaxle trans, it was amazing the places he could go .

Well,sorry for being so long,and I say do what you like. Remember it is YOUR car. I personally like the class11 style, nothing like a "stock" beetle tooling around the desert. Later,Mitch.

Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:05 pm

yes, I do mean class 11, and I love your car by the way. I would love to have my car look exactly like yours but it's a bit far gone for that. Thats why the more I think about it, the more the Baja seems the logical choice. it would drop some weight, delete some of the crappy body panels the car has and allow for a much wider tire/wheel selection. I just had that one last little bit of remorse about cutting up my first car. But I guess it's better to hack it and keep it around then leave it and watch it die. What size/type of wheels/tires do you think would be sufficent for scooting around the dunes? Do you think a Locking diff is necessary? I have a extra tranny to put one in, but I was shying away from that cus I want to (like it's really gonna happen) keep my budget under or as close to $2000 as possible. Most of the money is gonna end up in the engine cus it just started to take a dive. I'm gonna do a all steel baja by just cutting up most of the original fenders and nose, all depending on how much of the budjet rebuilding the motor eats. Again any thought or info would be greatly appreciated Thanks Jason

Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:26 pm

miatch, you love to post that pic huh, so far it has been in every thread i have looked at.

you never once mentioned class 11, or explained it. i just thought you were waiting to go big! This would explain the sp zenith.

Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:41 pm

shut up pooter 8) . that picture itself is the definition of a class 11 car

Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:56 pm

HamburgerBrad wrote: shut up pooter 8) . that picture itself is the definition of a class 11 car

Except its completely illegal :roll:

:D
It has lift spindles and other mods I beleive, Class 11 is strictly stock components and some limited strengthening mods.

Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:26 pm

correction. that picture is MY definition. who really cares about SCORE rules anyhow? :roll:

Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:53 am

Yeah,Pooter, take your primered stuper and go back to the Stupid beetle forums, before I run you over. You avatar stealing punk. Thanks brad, I dont care for the score rules, I dont race,but I do use my car. I built my car the way I wanted it, and in a manner in which I can drive it DAILY. My car was built to drive out to the Dez, and back again with no problems. So if its not legal who cares, according the the AZ DMV it is legal.

Watch out Pooter, before you see this coming in your rear view mirror:

NOW GO DELIVER MY PARTS!!! Later Mitch.

Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:21 pm

hey I wasnt having a go at anyone, and dont get me wrong I love your bug vwclass 11, I was just being a smartass.
especially since I'm building a 'class 11' but mine would actually be legal according to score rules, but thats just cause moneys tight, when I start rollin in it its gonna be anything but..

anyway got any side on pics with the nice new chunky tyres??
are you having bad rubbing issues with the large fronts?

Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:47 pm

miatch do u have lifted spindles???

Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:41 pm

3 inches, super beetle boy

Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:29 am

Pooter, at least I dont get stuck in the parking lot, dumas. Chewie, its ok, acutally these tires are smaller than what I used to have. I was running 30x9.50 all the way around, now I have the 7.00x15 in front,with 30x9.50 in the rear. Now I have less rubbing while turning, also to me it looks lower now :cry: . My final goal is to use my VW "Baja" wheels,which I have, with the 7.00x15 all the way around. I took some pics at the lowlife show, have not had the time to download them. I will try to get them going this weekend,Later Mitch.

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:26 pm

VWclass11 did you do any modifications other than a body lift to clear the 30's in the rear? Do you have any problems rubbing the trosion bar cover? I want to run 29's so the gearing will technically be a little better for moving those big tires, but 30's would make my tire selection alittle broader.

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:42 pm

No body lift here,its all suspension, with 3 inch raised spindles in front, read the sticky up top about the suspensions. I have run 235/75r15, and 30/9.50r15 with a 1600sp and stock trans. No problems so far, the only complaint is I am using a late type 1 trans, with the 3.88 ring and pinion, not the best for a small engine, with big tires, but it moves pretty good. Hope this helps, later Mitch.

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:56 am

what year tranny are using? is there any way to tell what ratio my tranny has? It should be the original 70 IRS that came with the car from the factory, but I also have a spare tranny in my basement out of a 70 vert. Can I spin the input shaft and count howmany times the output flanges turn to figure out the ratio? or is there another way?

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:09 pm

Dirty, I am using a stock 1974 trans, with the 3.88 ring and pinion. Stock ring and pinion for a 1970 is a 4.12. I actually prefer this r&p over the 4.37 used in the swingaxles, it is good off-road and still can drive at 70+ with out the engine have too much rpms. Best way to tell early trans with 4.12 usually have 2 removeable side plates, the 3.88 only has one side plate. Hope this helps, Later,Mitch.

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:21 pm

yes, that does help, and I feel alittle better about putting larger tires on my VW knowing that the ring and pinion should be that low. It is deffinatley a IRS tranny. I will check tonight about the sideplates but I'm almost positive that its got two.

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:21 pm

HamburgerBrad wrote: shut up pooter 8) . that picture itself is the definition of a class 11 car

nutswinger!!

MIatch at least i had the balls to tackle that mud pit. I made it through all of the other ones, so it was only the next logical progression.

Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:15 am

I recently picked up the Barndoor frontspindles I'm using for my "1951 Kommandeurwagen". All I have to do to fit them is to make new bushings that fits for stock bug linkpins. Barndoors linkpins are slightly larger.

In the rear I'm also going to use Barndoorparts. The tranny, rearaxles with reduxboxes from Barndoors (Pre-54) are just bolt on. Only thing is that there aren't that many laying around and the ones that are, are a bit pricy... :? Anyhow I've found a set that I hopefully will get home before summer... :D

Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:00 am

Dirtylittle70Bugger wrote: I want to run 29's so the gearing will technically be a little better for moving those big tires, but 30's would make my tire selection alittle broader.

My first VW was a Baja with 30"x9" tires on 5 spoke "Jackman style" cheapo rims. The trans was a swing that the PO had adapted a 3.88 into. The trans gearing made for slower takeoff but the engine did push the bug with those gears and getting down the road was no prob. Later when that trans died I put in another swing trans with a 4.37 and after that the putt-putt 1641 could make the Baja pop a (momentary) 3" wheelie.
If you want 30" tires, go for them!