TheSamba.com :: View topic - I need Transaxle help for my baja. Long, but neccesary.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:55 am

Hello. Sorry this is so long, but please read if you have time because I really need some diagnostic help. I recently purchased a nice baja as a daily driver and have a question about my transmission. It is a type 1 tranny with 4.37 gears (I think thats correct) and hardened keys. I have an 1835 cc engine and am running large MT tires on the back, so it is alot a strain on the tranny. Anyway, I took it offroading in Hollister SVRA this week and tried out my new car. It was amazing and ran great. However, it didnt have much power it felt like in Reverse. I didnt back up much, but one time I got in a bind and needed to back a few feet up a small hill to get turned around. I put it in reverse and tried to back up and it would not pull me out. It spun the tires a bit but I couldnt move up the incline. I thought it was simply a traction problem, but the hill was so small I didnt understand why it wouldnt pull out. I tried for a while to back out with no luck. It would shift into reverse and back up a bit, but as soon as I was on an incline it would not pull me out. Then it didnt want to shift into reverse easily. Luckily we got the car turned around and were able to pull forward up the small hill and it came out half throttle, no problem without even trying. Like it should have in reverse. We had been up and down hills 10 times as demanding as this one all day with no worries. Once we began driving again, I heard a wining niose and an occasional loud rattling sound from the rear. We babied it out of the park and stopped to check it out. Nothing looked broken or leaking and it ran fine. We then began the 2 hour drive back home. (Had no choice unfortunately). I have found no pattern to the noise. Sometimes at idle it rattles and grinds, sometimes its silent. The noise is the same with driving. Sometimes I can go through all gears without a noise at all, other times it sounds like the tranny is chewing through the floorpan. Sometimes it shifts fine, other times it wont go into gear. This happened 2 days ago. We made it home fine, close to 100 mile trip. It would cruise as if nothing was wrong at 65 mph. Then randomly it would make a loud wining sound for 10-15 seconds then quiet for a while. No pattern. Yesterday I drained the tranny fluid and to no surprise got a nice silver sparkly goop. Lots of metal shavings and splinters and the oil was completely grey. The drain plug magnet was filled with shavings. I found one large chunk that looked like a gear tooth of some sort. I refilled the tranny with Redline MT90 synthetic fluid and fired it up. It shifted smoother as to be expected and I did not hear any clunks or loud grinding noise at all like before But at all times and at all speeds I can hear the tranny whining while driving. Like a constant whirring sound that was not there before the oil change. But no grinding, rattling, and clunking like before. So thats good I guess. Seems pretty wierd to me. That now I hear the gears whining with clean oil when I didnt before with the funk in there. Reverse has always been a little strange. The car would kind of shutter in reverse and was really jumpy, but never any noise. So I guess something was already going and the added strain of backing up on a slight incline finished it off. Also occasionally taking off from a light the car would shutter and take of pretty jerky as well going forward. For no reason and totally randomly but would stop by about 5 mph. This would happen infrequently, but reverse is always jerky and I have to back up very slowly. None of the jerkiness in forward or reverse has changed since the "Incident". Any thoughts on what is wrong exactly. I guess I will have to have it rebuilt since it is internal, but I am not sure what it could be since I didnt do anything rough to it and all symptoms are random. I dont understand because people jump and run hard with over twice the power I have. Plus the tranny was less than a year old since it was rebuilt. Not by me. I thought maybe it is diff gears and maybe it wasnt sending power to both wheels in reverse or something. I dont notice it pull to either side ever while driving though. Thanks for reading and thanks for your help. Hopefully the synthetic will buy me time for my wife and I to save up as I have already spent a ton on repairs for this car. Bad luck so far unfortunately. Take care.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:59 am

Sorry again for it's length. I have never really posted on thesamba as I use shoptalkforums mostly, some of you may know me from there. But something seemed to be wrong with the site this morning as it wouldnt load for some reason. Take care and I really appreciate any input I can get on what may have happened.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:24 pm

Swing or IRS? The 4:37 says swing but you didn't specify if it was stock or not. Doesn't matter really.
Sounds like you chunked the spider gears. Do not drive it or you risk trashing the ring & pinion by spider gear pieces getting caught in it.
You were lucky you made it home. Never off road your daily driver unless you like walking. :wink:
A trailer for your toy is a good investment.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:40 pm

The reverse gear in a type 1 tranny is easily destroyed, Im not saying thats what happened but it could have.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:50 pm

Turboblue is (yet again) on the money with this one. Follow his advice.
Except for the trailer part- just make sure you BUILD your daily driver/off-roader to be able to do both, and don't get stupid. stupid costs.

Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:26 pm

It is an IRS tranny. It was rebuilt with a lower gearing to help turn the larger tires and do well offroad. Well are there any other options for stronger spider gears should that be the problem. I guess there is no way to really know without tearing the tranny apart. I wasnt doing anything particularly rough on the car. It was some serious terrain, but mainly just slowly climbing and putting around enjoying the scenery. How much can I expect to pay for a rebuild? This is a pretty unfortunate deal, but I guess thats how it goes. As soon as one thing gets fixed, something else breaks. I really expected the baja to be very tough since people race them and jump them. What kind of transaxles do people run that have all these turbo motors and stuff? Thanks again for input. Unfortunately, I have to drive it as it is my daily driver. So, options are limited.

Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:39 am

If money is getting tight, you could source a good used IRS transaxle and swap that in so the Baja is not off the road too long. I have seen running trans for around $75-$100 asking in classified ads. My old Baja had a 3.88 R&P turning 30" tires so it will work.

Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:56 am

Hey Hank, yeah, shoptalk is down....again. I just wanted to say (and you might already know this) if you can help it, try to never give hard throttle to reverse, they don't like it. The spider gear theory sounds like a good one to me. It would seem if someone put lower gears in it he would have installed a super-diff too, but who knows. The "big chunks" in the oil is never a good sign, so I really think it needs to come apart or be replaced, replacing is easier. Also, I don't know how the PO of your car had the trans mounted, but you may want to check or just replace all your mounts. The reason I say this is because of the shuttering your car does when taking off from a light (it's probably internal) BUT I have had bad mounts nearly shake me out of a Manx before. Also, if you have a little extra time and a little extra cash, I would replace your trans with a bus 3 rib, only if you can. Just food for thought.

Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:27 am

It doesnt have a superdiff. The PO was in a nice way a moron. I really feel that I got a shady deal on the car as there has been alot of stuff wrong that he "forgot" to tell me about. It's an awesome car and a super nice baja. I paid alot for it, but it was still a deal. Except it's had lots of problems. However, counting all the money I have had to put into it, I am still just back to the cost of the original build. Meaning if I had built it as is myself instead of buying it used, I would have spent about $3k more than I have on everything. The 091 bus tranny swap? Is that a major pain to do and is it the way to go or is a built type 1 a better route. I dont have a garage or anything to do much work myself unfortunately. Also, I would say that all the gears are hamered from grinding around in the funk oil. I guess I will have to replace it.

Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:31 am

hanknmorgan wrote: The 091 bus tranny swap? Is that a major pain to do and is it the way to go or is a built type 1 a better route. I dont have a garage or anything to do much work myself unfortunately.
yes, it is a major swap. plenty of work and fabrication involoved. i did it in my rail and it was a major PITA. in can see a few more problems you would encounter installing it in a baja. Especailly since you dont do much yourself, I definitely would stick with T1 unless your wallet runs deep.

Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:05 am

Yeah, I'll have to agree with Brad (damitt). Stick to a built type one if your an a buget and do not have the area to do the work yourself. But...if you ever get a chance and have the extra cash, I really feel bus is the way to go. Another good rule, do not speed shift, the problems it causes out weighs the fun.

Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:37 pm

OK, so I guess a type 1 built well would be my best bet. What do I need to make sure is stronger. The transaxle I have now has hardened keys, but I think that is the only thing other than lower gears that is not stock. I guess I need a super diff. Is there anything else that I should be sure to get. I dont want to spend a fortune, but I want to do it right the first time. Can a type 1 be built on a budget to be very strong? I want it take a beating even though I wont do anything stupid to it. Thanks again for your help.

Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:54 pm

Start with the strongest factory case made, the late model single side cover style transaxle. The parting line in the casting at the top of the outside of the bellhousing is offset to the passenger side and goes over the diff section the same way. The one removable side cover has 2 reinforcing rings on it and as a whole that case has been called by people wiser than me as being *as strong* as the Rhino case.

Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:50 am

Where is the best way to get a built transaxle. Should I order one from a company online, or have a reputable shop locally build one? I would just like to start price shopping, but I dont know what places have a good product for the price. Thanks in advance for any recommendations. I need to go ahead and get that thing replaced ASAP.

Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:01 pm

What about something like this for installing the 091 tranny into my baja bug. Would this kit eliminate the "custom" work involved or would it still be a major PITB to install? I just came across it doing some research. I would prefer to go with the 091 if possible due to strength and the fact that a built type 1 is going to cost a ton anyway. Any opinions on this kit?

http://www.chirco.com/cgi-bin/chirco.storefront/42.../CPR301130

Also on a side not I read somewhere that installing a bus tranny in a baja raises the rear end of the car. Is this true? Lifting is usually positive, but I dont want the back higher than the front. Thanks.

Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:34 pm

Hank, that will take (some) of the work out of it. However, if you use this kit you will have to cut a hole in the back of your car to run the shifter above the tunnel. Also, you can get this a little cheaper if you buy the stuff separately from another vendor. Installing a bus trans at 10 degrees raises the motor up Due to the ten degree slope of the tranny. A ten degree mount kit MIGHT be what your after. This will put the tranny at an angle so that your shifter can use the stock location. I have heard of several folks having some shifting problems with it. BUT...this is the way I have mine set up and have never had a single problem.

Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:38 pm

You can use this kit from Gene Berg. It gets rid of that shifter setup issue. I think other companys make a cheaper version.

Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:15 pm

there is still fabrication involved using that kit you listed, hank. thats the same trans mount that i used on my rail and there was a few pieces i had to modify and a couple pieces i had to fabricate myself to make it work. i have seen people half-ass this mount into place but mine is the cleanest setup with this kit i have seen and i still have a bit more to add to it.

Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:02 am

OK> Thanks everyone for your opinions. I think I will go with a built type one tranny from rancho or somewhere like that. I will attempt to do the swap myself to save money. I just had a ton of work done to it, that I couldnt do, and payed a ton for labor. At least with a type 1 it should be a much easier swap for me to attempt. I guess I will go with the works. Hardened keys, super diff, HD sidecover, etc. Any other suggestions or recommendations for what to get or where is the best place to order from. Thanks again everyone.

Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:04 am

Sorry another few quick questions. I have been looking around online at built transaxles. What R&P gearing should I get? 3.88, 4.12, or 4.37. I am 95% sure I have 4.37 now. I have the paperwork for it that I can dig up to make sure. It seems ok and has lots of low end power. It appears that 3.88 gearsets cost quite a bit more than the 4.12 or 4.37. Why is that? Also, is a close ratio 3rd & 4th something I should get? I am not really sure how that works. Pretty much I am looking at a Pro Street or Pro Comp transaxle. CB performance seems to have good prices. Are they a good company to order from? I use the car as a daily driver but I plan to take it offroading quite frequently in some fairly nasty terrain. It does see some highway usage. Right now it runs 65mph at about 3k rpm with the 4.37. Should I stay with a 4.37 or change to something else? Sorry to get longwinded again, but I need to make this tough decision ASAP to get everything back to normal. Once again, thanks for your time everyone.

Take care.
-Hank West