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Tue May 17, 2005 9:23 pm

Hi, Folks...

I posted in the VW forum some time ago and some very kind folks helped me out...since I have a sand rail, I thought it might be better to post here for help now...

I have a sand rail based on (I think) a '66 VW frame. The front wheels are 5 lug and the rear wheels are 4 lug. The previous owner's kid put gasoline in the master cylinder, so I'm in the process of rebuilding the brake system as a precaution. I'm a little paranoid about brakes...

So, I replaced the master cylinder (it was one from a VW bus) and finally was able to get the caps off that cover the wheel bearings. I pulled the brake drums off and found that the wheel bearings were ball-bearing type -- possibly original equipment. I cleaned them well in preparation of repackign them...I found they were quite pitted and should probably be replaced.

I went down to the parts place and they had the newer (pin bearing type) bearings...now, the inner and outer bearings that were on there appeared to be the same size but the ones they showed me at the parts place were clearly different sizes. Any ideas on this?

Also, the brake shoes they showed me had thinner linings than the ones already on the vehicle! As long as the shoes on there aren't soaked with grease/brake fluid, will it be ok to reuse those? I will probably have the drums turned...they don't look like they've been turned before, but I need to have them checked. I'm also replacing the wheel cylinders and flex lines. I'm also going to flush the metal lines with denatured alcohol to purge any contaminants (brake fluid/gasoline mixture) from them.

I also need to add an emergency brake to the vehicle...that or find out where the previous owner had it inspected before. :D

Sorry so long-winded...thanks for the kind help before. I really learn a lot here!

JM

Tue May 17, 2005 11:36 pm

i have heard good things about the "woven" brake shoes.
mckenzies carries them. check them out, mckenzies.com. call em up to see what they have to say about shoes for a rail, best people i have delt with since i started my baja.

Wed May 18, 2005 8:58 am

first off, is the front end ball joint or link pin? That will most likely determin what drums you have on the car and what will work for parts replacement. Also dot he front drums ahe fuve ribs in the center or is is smooth?

Wed May 18, 2005 9:42 am

mdetro4660@aol.com wrote: first off, is the front end ball joint or link pin? That will most likely determin what drums you have on the car and what will work for parts replacement.

Another kind person told me it's "king and link"...

Quote: Also dot he front drums ahe fuve ribs in the center or is is smooth?

On what part of the drum? As far as I can tell, everything is smooth on the drums.

Edit: I just pulled the rear drums off this afternoon...the rear drums are ribbed...this is proving to make it quite difficult to find a place that can turn them. Had the front ones turned this afternoon and they look great now.

The parts for the rebuild (for everything except new drums and front brake shoes) is going to run about $300 -- that includes the master cyl, all wheel cylinders, rear brake shoes, all wheel bearings and front seals.

When I pulled the rear left drum off (it took about an hour or so...), I found that that cylinder's seals had gone. The brake shoes were just disintegrated...there's now a pile of former brake linings on the floor below the wheel. Good thing I decided to pull the brake system apart.

I also found that the rear left wheel appeared to have all the parts for the emergency brake to hook up -- the problem is with the backing plate...it looks like someone just cut the tubing where the cable went in. Does that fitting come out or do I have to replace the backing plate? The rear right wheel doesn't have the emergency brake hardware in it... :roll:

I did note that when they built this rail, they used an adapter plate to be able to mount 5-lug wheels on the rear. I was told this might make it easier/cheaper to convert to disc brakes...but that will be a project for later...probably next time the brakes need servicing.

Thanks for the replies!

Thu May 19, 2005 11:03 am

Regarding the emergency brake connection on the rear backing plate...since they are 4-lug drums...my guess is that the backing plate is a post '65...which I think are the same through 77?. My 69 rear backing plates use a little screw in clamp/plate to hold the e-brake line in the backing plate. You can buy these from CIP for about a buck fitty each. Pretty much all those little parts are available from CIP and are listed in their print catalog and are not that expensive. It is a pretty decent reference for used parts interchangeability as well.

Thu May 19, 2005 11:56 am

hethen57 wrote: Regarding the emergency brake connection on the rear backing plate...since they are 4-lug drums...

Sorry...I thought I'd corrected that. Probably not...

Turns out, all four wheels are 5-lug. It's just that the rear drums have had a 5-lug to 4-lug adapter plate mounted to them to allow use of 4-lug wheels. Drums are indeed 5-lug all around.

Thanks!

Thu May 19, 2005 12:20 pm

Well..they could still be '65-67 5-lug drums which use that same backing plate as my '69. If so, the e-brake line will attach with a little cover plate/clamp and a single screw. If not...?

Thu May 19, 2005 12:31 pm

hethen57 wrote: Well..they could still be '65-67 5-lug drums which use that same backing plate as my '69. If so, the e-brake line will attach with a little cover plate/clamp and a single screw. If not...?

Well...hmmm...we went to the parts place last night to get some seals for the front hubs. The guy mic'ed it and the number on the seal cross-referenced to a 1963 VW application. Would the '63 set up be significantly different? We were puzzled because when we'd tried to get wheel bearings before, the inner and outer bearings were much different in size than the ones already on the buggy (which were much closer to the same size)...the '63 bearings look like a perfect match to what's on there.

I still don't know how to get the rear drums turned...no one seems to have an adapter since the drums are splined with the ribs in there.

The backing plate on there now looks as if it used to have a cable shield coming out of it at an angle, toward the front of the vehicle (which makes sense), but looks like someone just chopped it off and clamped it closed. I will try to take a picture of it tonight and post. Also, only the left rear has the E-brake hardware installed. The right one doesn't have the extra spring and metal separator bar(?) between the shoes...I cannot see where the cable would go into it on the right rear backing plate either -- possibly because they didn't need to simply "chop" it off that one.

Previous owner issues give me headaches...:)

Thanks as always for the replies and help...

Thu May 19, 2005 1:03 pm

63, 65, 61, whatever it is. late link pin front end

Thu May 19, 2005 1:31 pm

HamburgerBrad wrote: 63, 65, 61, whatever it is. late link pin front end

Yeah, thanks for that...so any ideas on the rest of my post?