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Tue May 17, 2005 11:07 pm

Thanks to all helping me with other posts. New question:

When reality sets in after the euphoria of finding an operable 1980 Westy for $400, where do I draw the line? I love Volkswagens and could get carried away with all aspects of bringing the van to a more respectable state of being, however, I would also like to practice moderation and economy for this vehicle. If I wanted a resto project, I would have held on to my German import '63 Kombi with ambulance partition and fan ten years ago. Where does the condition of the vehicle cross the line of "don't waste any more money than you have to"? The purist/perfectionist in me wants to rebuild the current stock air-cooled engine, and the environmentalist/practicle/don't-want-to-be-stranded-with-wife-and-kids-in-the-middle-of-nowhere side of me wants to convert to a Subaru engine. It would be nice to do some body work to fix superficial rust and dents, and replace the canvas in a couple of years. Not to mention new seats, and new propane tank. New poptop seals will be sooner on the list. And new tires all around. Oh, and a new grill.

What the van does have going for it is that the camper is complete, clean, fridge makes ice, no structural rust, high output 65A alternator, good brakes, recent tranny work, new starter, everything works, no major glitches (uh, not including the tuning and the oil leaks). Aside from the seats and the usual pealing panel material, the interior is in good condition

Can anyone out there help me make the best decisions for the vehicle, and for my wallet? I am seriously leaning towards the Subaru conversion as a long term investment (I did the math, the Subaru conversion is a better decision than a VW rebuild from a financial POV), but my current mode of thinking dictates that the Van has to be worth it to dump that kind of resources into it. If the van is not worth it, it makes sense to me to just keep it running as a daily driver with no improvements. Waddy'all think?

Thanks.

Wed May 18, 2005 4:54 am

I used to have a 78 bus in the mid 80's and used to use my buddies 82 westy for major road trips. When I went looking for a westy last year my intentions were to find a "beater" for local camping. I set my budget and was going to find the best westy for that price. If the engine needed to be rebuilt later I could handle throwing a few more thousand at the project. My 87 westy was in pristine condition on the inside and has a half ass new paint job. After I got stranded a few times 500 miles from home I decided it was all or nothing. Flying home from a road trip was no longer an option and I wanted to go cross country. To date I have replaced the radiator, both heater cores, all coolant lines, all fuel lines. upgraded to a 2.4 gowesty motor, had to replace the auto transaxle, cat, muffler, master cylinder, carpet, water pump, gas tank vent and I still need to replace steering lines and boots and will be tackling the seam rust and applying a new paint job and painting the pop top the same metallic blue. I NEVER intended to go this far but I'm enjoying the hell out of restoring the old girl and for me this is the funnest hobby I've ever had. Your wallet and emotional attachment will guide you :D

Wed May 18, 2005 6:44 am

Well it is your money amnd your time, but here is what I would do:

Allow yourself X number of dollars to get this thing working correctly in Y amount of time. For me that would be about $200 and a month or so.

If that doesn't work, sell it.

I don't know if you have done a compression test on this thing or not, but that would be the first thing I would do on a new bus. You need to find out where you are starting from to figure out your next step.

You could get it to run pretty decently with minimal investment if you were to score some serviceable parts in the classifieds. Depends on what you need. I don't know where you are located but if you are on some remote island in the middle of the indian ocean it could prove difficult to get any cheap parts for this thing.

I don't know what is in your toolbox either. That counts.

This is not the bus to convert to a Subaru engine. Go with a water cooled bus if you intend to go that route.

Wed May 18, 2005 7:03 am

if u r going to be a purest it will take a lot $$ ,just repair the normal repairs first . brakes things like that, as randy said ,get acomression test ,so u where u stand with the engine , if it good ,put some of the repair funds on the side for a engine .( it took me 3 yrs to do) while i waited for the engine i did the small stuff like brakes ,front end,tires well u get the idea . i'm still repairing some of the mechanics and drive her here and there(camping).i plan to redo the entire van due to my wife and i agreed that we will retire in it and see the world :D :D

Wed May 18, 2005 8:24 am

I guess it would depend on what island you live on. If you are in the NW, Westy Vanagons are still a hot commodity. The only operable Vanagon Westy for less than $3000 I have seen around here is the one I purchased. You could plunk a couple grand in your bus and still possibly sell for a profit after having had some fun with it, if it's not toooo ugly. Also, how do you feel about going slow?

Wed May 18, 2005 9:31 am

I have been lurking for a few years and finally bought an 85 Westy via the Samba. It is a theft recovery. It was stolen about 2 months ago. It was undented, unrusted and original paint when it was stolen. Now it looks like this: http://walaroo.com/van We have repaired all the "walk home" mechanical things. Now it is time to fix the body. I bought an 89 window van as a parts donner. I got a body guy who will work on it on weekends. Then we paint white again. Other than tranferring goodies from the 89 and an $50 85 (thanks Samba) van that is about all we will do.

Cost? $2500 Westy, $600 parts, $100 89, $50 85 and $500 towing, lodging, etc. PLUS body and paint. I figger we'll have about right about $6K in it. Then we need to deal with a better engine sometime. The 89 can donate that too, but needs heads.

Is it worth it? Yes, no or maybe. Do we know what we have? Yes, basically. Fun family project? YEP. Cost effective? Sort of.

End effect? 85/89 looking rust free, nice white automatic Westy with A/C, power everything.

Thanks Samba,
Walt in San Diego....

Wed May 18, 2005 12:15 pm

:D either get yourself a VW mag and look for souped up type 4 motors, or go and get a 3.2 carrera motor.. they will fit under the lid with no problem... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Wed May 18, 2005 3:01 pm

Yea but sometimes you cant help to just build a bus for fun :D

Wed May 18, 2005 5:03 pm

I was thinking alot about this during this past winter. I bought an 86 auto with a new engine for 2k last year - van has 100000 miles. However, the van needed body work, a new exhaust, tires, propane tank, etc. 1 year later I have put almost 7k more into it, including repairing the body, alloy wheels/tires, pp tank, exhaust, coolant lines. After all this, whose to say the tranny's not going to puke on me next week? Oh what the hell, no risk no reward. Now we have a sweet 86 westy that I know well for 9k. It would be difficult for me to find one as nice as this one for that much $.

Just my opinion for what its worth, but I would not go with the subaru conversion. I know some people swear by them but I personally would not buy a van with a subaru or tiico conversion - they are too contrived. I'd go with a GoWesty or a Boston Bob engine. Good luck with your van - "keep 'em on the road"!

Wed May 18, 2005 10:12 pm

Randy in Maine wrote:
I don't know if you have done a compression test on this thing or not, but that would be the first thing I would do on a new bus. .....I don't know where you are located but if you are on some remote island in the middle of the indian ocean it could prove difficult to get any cheap parts for this thing. ....I don't know what is in your toolbox either. ....This is not the bus to convert to a Subaru engine. Go with a water cooled bus if you intend to go that route.

Went off-island today and dropped about $300 in tune-up goodies -- I am long over-due to own these anyways. Included are compression tester (!), timing light, dwell/tach, vacuum guage, test light, etc etc. And, I may as well be in the middle of the Indian Ocean -- actually, I am in the Southern Gulf Islands in BC Canada. If you don't know where that is, find the San Juans in WA and simply cross the border -- Pender Island, to be exact. Although not entirely remote, an entire day can easily be killed working around the ferry schedule when going off-island.

For Subaru: I am told that it doesn't take much to frankenfurter the cooling system out of a water-boxer and install it in the air-cooled bus. (Can anyone vouch for this? Second/third/fourth opinions would be great here) I thought of the Porsche 3.2L conversion too, but leaned towards the Subaru for maintenance reasons. (Again, opinions please).

The closest VW dealer to me (Speedway Motors, Victoria BC) has informed me all the rubber I need is NLA :!: : s-elbow, aux air reg elbow, brake booster T, AND throttle body to air-plenum seal. I know some of these can be found at Van-Again and Bus Depot, and will go there. But some of these things are nowhere (yes, I did rake through the Samba classifieds -- a few times now). This is the kind of cr@p that makes me embrace the notion of conversions.

Anyways, the day was indeed killed, and I will get back to you when I can run the compression test.

Thu May 19, 2005 7:41 am

Might try going to the bus depot (ron) or bus boys (walter) website. Another good guy to deal with in Canada in Scott Lyons over at germansupply.com out of Toronto. I have been over to vanagain and found stuff there.

Bus depot is great as you can just enter in the part number.

Bus boys website also has great drawings with the part numbers identified. Go to the section "Emission Control Parts" and "Gas Fuel Injection" at bus boys.

Everybody who sells VW parts wants to hear those part numbers as opposed to a description. Sometimes you have to lie to them and tell them you are a baywindow bus.

As far as I am aware, most of those parts are the same for a vanagon and a baywindow. Karl who post here is the best authority. He has forgotten more about these things than I will ever know. :oops:

Seal between throttle body-air plenum 025-133-073 (vanagon part number)

90* boot for aux air valve 022-129-637. (baywindow) Mine has a small steel insert that I have not replaced. I don't know the part number.

Other people have had good luck using spark plug boots of the correct size, but I have not tried that myself.

I bought about 6 feet of 13 mm hose just to have, about 8 feet of 7mm FI hose, and a box of the good fuel clamps from ultimate garage. Handy to have that stuff. You could do with less.

If you want some more meat in your van, john at aircooled.net in SLC or jake raby at the massive type IV store in GA would be good places to go. That stuff cost real money though. You pay for what you get.

If you could hook up a water cooler and a subaru engine to an air cooled, you are a better welder and fabricater than me. i know my limitations.

Also if you think VW parts are expensive, wait till you see the cost of anything that says "Porsche" on it. Pelicanparts.com has some of that stuff. If you have to ask how much, you can't afford it.

Let us know

Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:12 am

TJR wrote: Oh what the hell, no risk no reward. Now we have a sweet 86 westy that I know well for 9k. It would be difficult for me to find one as nice as this one for that much $.

Still way cheaper than a new car.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:48 am

Hi.

I looked quickly at posts, but I may be repeating what has been said. Anyhow.....

Propane tanks can be refurbished. You may not need a new one.

Converting an air cooled to water cooled may be more work than you realize. (I'm currently doing this)

I"m sure the majority of this list will echo this, but it seems that most end up putting a lot of money/time into their Vanagons. This is normal.

In the back of my mind, for years, I had this vision of restoring an old Beetle. Like a nice Bahama Blue '63. But here I am more or less restoring an '81 Westy.

Zero regrets on this being my "restoration". I get an immense amount of satisfaction from doing this, and to boot, it is practical and fun!

Neil.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:35 pm

<---- proud owner of a 1980 Turbo Diesel, and converting my 1980 westy to a I4 gasser this summer.

sure it's extra work, jut for heat, reliability and horsepower. but the H2o drivers SHOULD all handle, inspect, and or replace the same parts
radiator, hoses, heater core, heater blower, etc..
its sourcing the parts van that would be the biggest obstacle I would think.

in fact the intention on my 1980 Westy is a Syncronization with H2o conversion. purests be damend.. and you wouldn't imagien the lack of driveline & suspension maintenance the well intended POs don't do to thier 'BELOVED' vans.. you can toss $500 easy on front bushings,rubbers, and joints and thats DIY prices.. but man some peoples idea of maintenance is drive till it's worn out, then sell of their 'beloved' van.. 0-o if it's soo beloved why are the rear brake backing plates rusted thru.. and throwout bearings rattling around in the bellhousing.

Best luck, and enjoy..

Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:38 pm

Hey Islandwesty, I've got a 1980 Westy and I payed way more than you did, so you're way ahead of the game. I made the mistake of rebuilding the engine in mine. This was before I found this site and heard of all the cool engine conversions that are possible. If I was going to do it over again, I would go with a Subaru 2.5 and do all that was needed to convert it to water cooled. It wouldn't be too hard. I would go to a local junk yard and see what I needed to pull off a later model watercooled vanagon such as brackets and anything that doesn't wear out with time. The rest I would buy new, like the radiator and coolant lines.

To rebuild the aircooled engine properly you just about have to through out everything but the case, crank, and rods. That gets expensive real quick. You can get a Subaru 2.2 for about $500 and it will outlast the best aircooled rebuild and have twice the horsepower and heat that works even going downhill.

I added up all my receipts the other day, and you still can't even buy a new econo box for what I have in mine. If you can do most of the work yourself, I would seriously consider an engine conversion. I've got some before and after pics of mine in my gallery. Good luck in whatever direction you go.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:48 pm

danfromsyr wrote: <---- proud owner of a 1980 Turbo Diesel, and converting my 1980 westy to a I4 gasser this summer.

sure it's extra work, jut for heat, reliability and horsepower. but the H2o drivers SHOULD all handle, inspect, and or replace the same parts
radiator, hoses, heater core, heater blower, etc..
its sourcing the parts van that would be the biggest obstacle I would think.

For sure getting the WBX donor could be a pain. I used a donor for some of the parts.

Actually, in hindsight, most of the parts are available (so far ;) ) used or new. And if not, one could find other solutions for some parts. After market rad fans, marine bellows (not my pref though) for long pipes etc.

One of the aspects I really enjoy about converting my air cooled, is that almost all the cooling system parts are new. In fact the only used parts are the rad fan, lower/upper rad brackets, fan relay and harness and long steel lines though they were in decent shape when I took them from the donor. Plus I POR-15'd the crap out of them.

It's a good thing :)

Neil.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:16 pm

The original post is from 2005.

Some one digging?

Good Valid points we here overlook.

Good catch.

:wink:

Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:37 am

That's funny. I'll have to start looking at the dates more carefully. So, what ever happened to Islandwesty?