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Tue May 31, 2005 2:11 pm

I don't know much about this species of vdub but I think they are pretty sexy in an ugly way. Anyway, on all the adds they say "rare" but the price is so low, even for completely original running cars. Why?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:25 pm

OiOiOi wrote: I don't know much about this species of vdub but I think they are pretty sexy in an ugly way. Anyway, on all the adds they say "rare" but the price is so low, even for completely original running cars. Why?

Because they are not very well understood, with the FI and the Type 4 engine along with a sloid baody and frame.

Tue May 31, 2005 6:14 pm

...and a useful heater, and the ability to run an A/C system without killing the engine, and really good four-wheel fully independant suspension, and disc brakes up front, and a really good auto tranny, and an alternator from the very beginning, and really comfortable seating. Don't get me wrong, I really like the T1, and torsion bar suspensions (after all Herr Dr. Ing. Porsche himself used them in all the really good Porsches!), but IMHO, the 411/412 is cut above the T1, sort of like what the 911 is to the 356. 8)

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:57 pm

Who knows...people are ignorant? The 2 door/4 speed 411/412 sedan is probably one of the rarest factory VW bodystyles ever produced.

Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:19 am

It's also a demand issue. No matter how rare your car is, if nobody wants it then it's not going to sell for much. The type 4 is the black sheep bastard of the VW family and not too many people care for them. If someome is selling one for a fortune, it won't sell because we all know we can pick them up for cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I would pay good money for a good Type 4, but not a rediculous price just because of it's scarceness. There's just too many cheaper ones to pick from.

Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:14 am

ecdez wrote: It's also a demand issue. No matter how rare your car is, if nobody wants it then it's not going to sell for much. The type 4 is the black sheep bastard of the VW family and not too many people care for them. If someome is selling one for a fortune, it won't sell because we all know we can pick them up for cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I would pay good money for a good Type 4, but not a rediculous price just because of it's scarceness. There's just too many cheaper ones to pick from.

That's a good summary of the situation. The 411/412 series is not desired by most people, VW hobbyists included. The same goes for the VW Quantum, another of my VW passions. It was never a big seller for VW, but it's scarce numbers dont equate to a big price tag dur to it's low desirability.

Tuna

Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:35 am

hello,anglodeutsh, ioioio ask why so cheap ,, i thing i find the exact reason for that yestherday with my 412,, the mécanician d,t, know the car , plus , the car was product in sud affrica ,,, yestherday i stop on indépendant vw garage for to look what he have for spare parts for my 412 (hold men spécialist in vw ?????? my eye ) and he said me ,,, wy you loos your time for to put this bathard car on the road ,,, only black people drive this kind of car during the year 70 ,,,, and afther over 30 years with vw with my 6 audi car and vw ,i prefere my 412 for only one reason the fiability of this car wend is top shape ,hot, or cold temp this car start ,,, not the same thing with modern ,vw,and audi product ,,,,bb412

Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:35 am

Its been said that if a car was popular when new it will be popular when its old. I think that also means that if a car is unpopular new it is likely to be unpopular when old ("rare" like a Duesenberg, and "unpopular" like the VE Type 4, are NOT the same thing)

Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:33 pm

Mike J. Goode wrote: Its been said that if a car was popular when new it will be popular when its old. I think that also means that if a car is unpopular new it is likely to be unpopular when old ("rare" like a Duesenberg, and "unpopular" like the VE Type 4, are NOT the same thing)

Ah, so you want to argue semantics eh? :P I would argue that rarity is rarity is rarity. Why it is rare is another issue. Initial production is a factor. Age plays a big factor. Then you have desirability as another issue, both at the time of manufacture and presently, as well as a number of other factors melting in the pot. There are all sorts of exceptions to the rule that you stated, as well as the other rules of thumb of car collecting. Edsels enjoy a reasonable following today, where they have the reputation as a complete flop when they came out. Yugos are quite flimsly little cars (Damn Commie built Fiat as I believe Deathbus has described them), but lately I've seen some fine examples sell for surprising amounts of money on ebay. Though I don't hold out much hope for the T4 to become a "legitimate" collectible vehicle, the hope is in people like me that aren't influenced at all by the car's initial desirability, as I wasn't even alive at the time. Generally, though, when ordinary cars become collectible, it is out of nostalgia. When the generation that can be nostalgic about the cars dies, the values often drop off.

Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:57 pm

The value of these cars will rise, that is evident by some of the prices, the nicer ones are. These are not Beetles and will never sell as well.

Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:42 pm

"How do you double the value of a VW 412?"
"Fill it with gas"

Why did VW name it the 411"?
"Because they only expected to sell 411 of them".

Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:11 am

"How can you tell if someone is a dumbass?"
"They take off their fuel injection and replace it with a webber progressive carb."

"You ever done 115 mph on the interstate in a stock VW with air conditioning?"
"Yes in a 412"

Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:27 pm

115KM/H right? 115MPH in a STOCK VW with a/c-was that going over a cliff of being towed by a faster vehicle :-)?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:32 pm

no thats 115 MPH in a stock 412 with the air on.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:47 pm

If you've never ridden in a 412, you can't imagine the power. We went to a high school band event back in the mid-70's in a 412, three teenagers, trumpets, etc., and we exceeded the speed limit to get there by a good bit...I was shocked that a VW could do that at the time. 110 sounds right to me.

Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:39 pm

If I could find a clean 73/74 wagen 412 I would trade my type 3 with a type 4motor in for a type 4 with a type4 motor in it!!! :lol: IT CAN DO 110MPH>! TRUST ME.I did it with my 3 friends in it on the 10 fwy from pomona to ontario.I was racing a POS mustang.His face was in shock! And I was only at half throttle!!! :wink: And I have 1980 vanagon F.I. in it too.

Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:41 pm

Mike, If you wanna see?If you are in So-Cal,San Bernardino Co. I will show you gladly! :lol:

Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:15 am

Well, quoted top speed for the 412 2dr. sedan w/4spd. is 96mph according to the info I believe that is on this very site. Now, it would be quite easy to reach 100mph with certain cars, as there is bound to be a variance. Anything higher on a stock vehicle, and I might suspect speedometer error possibly? My '85 Golf with similar horsepower and weight would go an indicated 95mph on level ground.

Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:31 pm

I had a 411/412 in the 80's HATED IT glad someone likes them

Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:24 pm

I even have a sales brochure for the 411 and a rear deck script for a 412 but need the the sales brochure for a 412 and then the car and I'm set! :lol: I love the underdog, ugly duckling type of cars! :lol: I think different! :wink: