TheSamba.com :: View topic - AVP eng for a-c westy -- who's done it?

Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:54 pm

I am looking for feedback / recommendations good and bad for using an AVP / Bus Depot 2.0L longblock in a Vanagon Westy. How do they hold up? Ideally, I would go for Boston Bob, but my budget would dictate otherise... :roll: destined for some better time with a more plentiful wallet.

All those out there who have installed AVP in a Vanagon, speak up! I've seen lots of posts in the Bay-Win Forum, but willy-nilly over here... :D

I would really like to take the time to be able to rebuild this one myself, but time is something I won't have much of, and I can see the van being unusable for quite some time... we want to start making memories! The longblock option is starting to weigh in with more meaning...

...still pondering the possibilities... one scenario I am looking at is throwing in a longblock just to get this thing on the road, and keeping the old core for a slow and proper rebuild... swap the engines out every few years for preventative maint. Kinda makes sense to keep the core, I guess, if things are still usable... parts are just going to get more expensive and fewer and farther between to find.

Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:33 am

Been here?

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Longblock.html

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Heads.html

Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:54 pm

well, i read the post and it sure had blood bath written all over it. maybe he doesn't work and can't bill out his time while he's fooling around with an engine installation, but it sure seems like his time and energy more than paid for a better long block.

i just got thru with a boston bob engine installation in my 80 westy. i had a local shop do it, after i had determined that they were competent and honest. they had worked on air-cooleds in the past, but now do current german and other european cars.

yes, it was expensive - but all i did in the process was deliver the car, pick it up, and take it back for the 300 and 1000 mile checkups. the total bill, including replacing all of the rubber and plastic parts, exhaust, oil cooler, clutch, etc, was close to $5000 installed - but i earned a lot of money and had a nice german vacation during the process instead of jerking around trying to figure out the best way to spend hours trying to save a few bucks. i just got back from a 1200 mile trip in 90 degree heat, and had NO problems. the only time the oil temp got over 220 was going up mt. pocono in rush hour and 90 degree heat, and got 22+ mpg on the trip fully loaded. after 5000+ miles, my next task in the engine area is to change the oil and leave it alone.

to each his own as far as how you spend your money - but be sure that your own time is free before getting into something that could 'cost' you not hours - but days and weeks.

terry

Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:03 pm

Just dont touch GEX in SoCal.... :lol: Unless you want to toss 3 grand into the wind... :twisted:

Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:10 pm

I say toss in a "good used" motor and rebuild your engine.

The horror story started with the dropped seat (and a very old engine!). If yours is running (albeit not real well) then you have a very good basis for a rebuild.

I've done many air-cooled rebuilds... not a type IV. Some of the "routine" things done to the older engines don't need to be done to the type IV (like line-boring... the aluminum case is stronger on the tIV than the mag-alloy in the tI).

Get quality heads, P&C, bearings and gaskets. In all likelyhood you won't need to touch the crank or rods other than to clean them up nice. Buy a new high quality oil pump... cheaping out there will kill the project.

Yes, the innards may be toast but a complete tear-down will tell all and you can always toss it later!

Mike!

Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:17 am

Yes, I installed an AVP engine in my '81 Westy five years ago. The engine which came with the van dropped an intake valve seat on #3 cylinder six months after I bought it, so I did a buncha Web-research and decided to go with AVP after reading all the testimonials for their engines. A prime motivator for me was that they supposedly followed a process to eliminate dropped valve seats.

I decided against exchanging my engine, 'cause the cost of shipping my core to them was pretty close to the core charge. Getting the engine up into Canada was a significant headache. The shipper they used was pretty clueless about how to get a rebuilt engine across the border. When it did finally arrive, there was a honkin' big hole in the crate where a forklift blade had been driven through the box. Fortunately, the only damage to the engine was a bent mounting stud. Could have been a lot worse. Total cost of bringing this engine to Canada worked out to about $3000 CDN.

Turned out to be a good move not to send them my core, because I'm currently in the process of rebuilding my original engine. Reason for this? The AVP engine dropped a valve seat. After all of 38,000 km. (about 24,000 mi. for the metrically-impaired). Ask me if I'm impressed.

My original intent was to just slap a fresh pair of heads on the AVP engine, but after pulling the heads I took a peek at the P&C's. One badly scratched cylinder and I'm into it for new P&C's as well. So I look a little further: hmm, those lifters look pretty rough. So does the camshaft. I split the case and found worn-out parts everywhere. The biggest surprise was the crankshaft timing gear. It was so loose it was actually rattling on the crankshaft. My theory is that the camshaft gear was too big (a -3) and the pressure from the cam gear just caused the crank gear to fret away at the crank. Both gear and crank are junk now.

Having said that, I'd recommend against rebuilding it yourself, unless you have a lot of time and patience to source parts. I started gathering parts in February. It's now July and I've just got the shortblock assembled. Ok, so I'm being extra careful about assembly, but I only want to do this once. The biggest headache in this whole process has been finding parts (and then sometimes having to find a better-quality part after the first parts obtained turned out to be sub-standard). It has dawned on me over these last few months that the ubiquity of aircooled VW parts which I once took for granted is rapidly evaporating, particularly for the type IV engine. Oh, and when the dealer can get parts, expect to pay royally for them. Get this: I asked the local dealer for a quote on hydraulic valve lifters. They came back with $133. Each. Heh. Time to switch brand loyalty.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:29 am

Sub standard seems to be a real issue these days. I saw a set of P&Cs advertised for $150 and knew right away they were junk. No way can you buy a set of 4 for that. Maybe one set, but not all 4.

So you have to be extra careful. I do feel lucky to be able to get parts for such an old engine, but geezzzz you have to be sooo, sooo careful.

Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:28 pm

Looks like I'd be better off either getting it done by Boston Bob or buying a junker motor and re-building it from one of Raby's kits. I know it's gonna have to be done some day! Just hope it's not too soon.

DEATH TO GEX!

Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:04 am

8) Thanks for all input! AVP has been nixed for now. Here's the low-down:

We get kicked out of our house next week while our landlords come here for their holiday for three weeks... it sucks, but we knew about this when we signed the lease, and it could be worse, if they were here for the whole summer, we would have had to move all our stuff too, so it's not so bad. The flip side is that they live in SF.. WW not too far away in Fresno gave me a deal on all his A-C Vanagon parts lying around his garage, including a complete running engine (thanks WW). My landlords are already running a trailer up here on their holiday, so I get a load of spare parts delivered right to my front door in exchange for some work around the house, and a lot of firm haggling to avoid extortion....

I'm going with the put-running-engine-in-bus-and-re-build-2nd-engine-on-own-budget-and-time-line-as-can-afford strategy. If I :-({|= or run into a ](*,) then I have signed up with Amskeptic who will be in this region at the end of Aug. Hopefully I can get the engine in the van and running before he gets here so can fine-tune and go over the rest of the van too. Currently, I have my flywheel and heads in the shop, they should be ready later this week to install on the running engine coming from CA. If anybody has ever been to Beetle Auto Service in Victoria BC, I've never seen so many bus patients all at the same hospital... They work on all VWs Porsches Audis, but it is (painfully) obvious that they have a reputation for buses and their overworked engines... The owner is a factory trained specialist... I hope they get my heads right, they found no cracks in 'em.

Time to order parts...