TheSamba.com :: View topic - So how do i find the thermostat and flaps???

Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:07 pm

So, you guys said where my thermostat is located..do i find it by looking underneath the vehicle or on top? And if my seal is leaking, mightyart, are u referring to my engine seal....look at my engine pics, notice there is a 4 inch gap at the top of the engine,...is this causing it to over heat? I ask because, pocvw's bus has the same gap in his engine seal, and his engine does not overheat. I also need to know how i get to the flaps to see if they are working right. the bar springs back like you guys said..but do i need to take something off to expose the flaps and do some sort of test to see if they are opening or not??? Man, i wish i could just talk to one of you guys!!!!! This bus is going to die soon if i cannot figure out how to do these things.....Please help me.....i am trying to understand, and i am getting some of it...hopefully it will not be too late...thanks guys, connie.

Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:45 pm

Aircooled engines rely upon passing air to assist in their cooling .Vw designed a metal surround for your engine and when that surround is missing , overheating can occur . You should have a collar of tinware with seal around the gap between the engine and the deck , just above the flywheel . There must also be tinware down either side of the engine , roughly where your heat exchangers are . Without all this tinware over heating will take place . As far as the flaps are concerned , look at the flaps , follow a thin steel cable down the right side of the engine . It will lead you to a wheel type device below the airfilter side of the engine . The steel wire wraps around this wheel and is then attached to the thermostat . You will have to get under to find this . However if this cable is broken the default position is open flaps , to prevent overheating . If the thermostat is faulty it could close the flaps and cause overheating . It follows that if the flaps are closed and stay closed a TEMPORARY solution is to disconnect the wire from the flap . That will allow the flaps to open and prevent overheating from this cause .
With me so far .

Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:51 pm

i am with u so far...i am going to go try and find the thermostat now...and all of my engine tin is intact...the engine seal, i noticed after looking mor closely, has several areas where it has rotted away..i do have a new engine seal..may need some more help when i put it on...thanks so far..very helpful...connie.

Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:53 pm

I personally do not think this is the cause of your overheating , but without looking at it I cannot tell . Ensure timing is accurate . Ensure fuel is not too lean . If you can make sure the cooling fan is operating and passing air over the engine . Make sure you have enough oil in the engine . Do not leave the deck lid off when driving . Color of plugs should show grey .Exhaust shoul show some carbon , not be a light grey . Sorry but I am running through things I would look at if it were my van .

Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:56 pm

Is your fan belt ok , make sure it's not slipping .

Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:06 pm

Try http://www.vw-resource.com/overheating.html

It covers in main the bug but your system is fairly similar and it shows you a thermostat as well as covering reasons for overheating. Ignore the carburettor info.

Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:59 pm

Connie wrote: i am with u so far...i am going to go try and find the thermostat now...and all of my engine tin is intact...the engine seal, i noticed after looking mor closely, has several areas where it has rotted away..i do have a new engine seal..may need some more help when i put it on...thanks so far..very helpful...connie.

That is your problem, or the most pressing one, the engine seal just presses on, take off the old one and follow it around with the new one.
The thermostat in a aircooled is not important like in a watercooled engine,
It just makes it heat up faster, I drove around without one for 8 months. If the flaps are "springing" back, then they are open, moving the leaver closes them if there is no cable to the lever the thermostat is not connected.

Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:06 pm

Perhaps this is a stupid question and you may have answered it before but what symptoms lead you to conclude the engine is over heating ?

Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:24 pm

I've read some of your past topics and smoke from the vents will in all probability be oil burning off some hot surface under the engine . Could be burning on the exhaust if blown back , or the heads could burning it off
. I doubt very much if the engine seals are causing overheating and I doubt if the flaps are doing so either . To get as hot as you say it would need no oil in the engine or the oil pump not working (you won't work that one out ) or your fan is not working due to broken or loose fan belt .I suspect that the smoke from your vents may be a red herring . Cure the oil leaks then see what turns up .

Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:37 pm

lordsniff wrote: I've read some of your past topics and smoke from the vents will in all probability be oil burning off some hot surface under the engine . Could be burning on the exhaust if blown back , or the heads could burning it off
. I doubt very much if the engine seals are causing overheating and I doubt if the flaps are doing so either . To get as hot as you say it would need no oil in the engine or the oil pump not working (you won't work that one out ) or your fan is not working due to broken or loose fan belt .I suspect that the smoke from your vents may be a red herring . Cure the oil leaks then see what turns up .

Not engine seals, engine compartment seal, the seal that goes all the way around the tin, holes or missing rotted bits will cause hot air to recirculate and not cool the engine. The fan is attached to the crankshaft if it don't turn you have a more serious problem then overheating. the only belt is for the Alt. change the engine compartment seal.

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:08 pm

this is the engine copartment seal, this should be tight agaist the firewall all the way around no light shining through, if there are holes or gaps, it needs to be replaced.

the plastic pipes coming off the squirrel cage on the alternator are important, one hooks to each heat exchanger and blows the hot air forward. if they are not in place the air stays in the heat exchangers and keeps getting hotter.

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:23 pm

i am going to put that engine seal on like Mightyart has suggested...as for what i have done so far...i degreased and scrubbed under my engine with Purple Power and a brush, i took my bumper off...drove it for 10 minutes...dipstick piping hot..engine hot enough to burn when touched...my fan belt is turning and seems to be fine, oil is full, still leaking on cylinder 3&4 side ( see, i learned something!! ) at the push rod tubes....so yes, i agree with Mightyart, i should change the engine compartment seal and see what happens next...thanks all of you so far...i will keep you posted...plan on changing that engine seal tomorrow...thanks again guys..talk to you soon!! connie.

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:57 pm

From www.type2.com at the bartnik location..

Pushrod Tube Oil Seals
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leaky pushrod tube oil seals are a common cause of oil leaks on the VW air-cooled engines. To fix the leak, you have to remove the pushrod tubes and replace the seals on both ends.

It's not a technically difficult task, but it is time-consuming and will try your patience. It will be easier to do the job with the rear wheels removed.

NOTE:This procedure applies only to the Type 4 engine. To replace the pushrod tube oil seals on a Type 1 engine is much more involved, since the cylinder heads have to come off.

To remove the pushrod tubes,

1) Remove valve cover -- get your big honkin' screwdriver under the bail and pry it down (don't pry it up. You'll regret it. Ask me how I know).

2) You are now faced with your rocker arms. Note that there is a thin metal wire spring thing that is very oddly shaped and goes the length of the head, fitted under the rocker arms and holds the pushrod tubes in place. Pay attention to how it goes because you will need to know later. This is another reason for doing only one side at a time so you can reference the other side for reassembly. Anyway, loosen the rocker arm nuts a bit so you have enough slack to get that spring out. Try not to bend it up too much.

3) Get a clean paper towel or something similar to keep all the parts on. Put the spring on the towel. Now remove the rocker arm nuts and washers and put them on your towel. Don't lose 'em. Pull the rocker arms off the studs and be careful as they will want to fall apart as soon as they are free from the studs. Put them on the towel next to each other like they are in the engine. This is one of those jobs where you want to avoid mixing stuff up.

4) Remove a pushrod (I do these one at a time so I don't get the pushrods mixed up. Just pull it right out. Sometimes they are full of oil and surprise you. Lay it on the paper towel, make sure it's straight by rolling it. If it's bent, time for a new one.

5) Remove pushrod tube. You do this by twisting/pushing/pulling it out through the cylinder head. Many say not to use pliers on the tube but if you use pliers and squeeze lightly (so as not to crush the tube) you'll be OK, I used pliers when I did it and they're MUCH easier to get out that way. Just be sure to squeeze very lightly. You usually need to set up a twisting motion to break them free and then pull back firmly but gently and pull the tube out through the head.

6) Clean up old tubes or replace them. Use parts cleaner, like brake parts cleaner or carb cleaner. Get all the crud off the tubes, you may find that they are not supposed to be black. You may also elect to purchase a complete set of new pushrod tubes. Remove the old seals from the tubes if you are reusing them. I usually get them off by getting a screwdriver blade under the seal and prying it off the tube.

7) Install new seals. There are two kinds available. One is the stock VW seal and the other is the seal that gets used on the Porsche version of the same engine. Buy the expensive Porsche version. Word is they will outlast the VW seals quite well. You will need 16 seals for the job and the seal for the case end of the tube is smaller than the seal for the cylinder head end. So you should have 8 of the large seals and 8 of the small.

8) Clean up the sealing surfaces on the cylinder head and the engine case. Use a paper towel moistened your parts cleaner of choice. Be thorough, any dirt on the sealing surface will cause leakage. Take your time and do it right.

9) Repeat with each pushrod tube.

10) Put everything back together. When reinstalling the pushrod tubes, you need to make sure they seat all the way. They don't tend to want to go all the way in by hand. I used a big 1/2" drive extension as a drift and gently tapped the tubes home with a hammer. Be careful doing this that you don't pinch the seals on the head end.

Make sure that you put that wire spring thing back in correctly. It holds the pushrod tubes in place. Again, don't mix up the pushrods, rockers, etc. Also, when putting things back together, you will want to make sure that the pushrods seat correctly in the lifters. If you twist them around by hand you can just feel them slip in where they're supposed to be. After you're done, put new valve cover gaskets on (don't use sealer, just a thin coat of wheel bearing grease on both sides of the gasket). If the sealing surfaces for the valve cover gaskets on the heads are rough, it is wise to take some steel wool and use it to smooth the cylinder head surface out. This will stop those pesky valve cover gasket leaks. If you have solid lifters, you will need to adjust the valves after this operation (that's another whole procedure, but is written up well in Muir). Some say if you have hydraulic lifters you also need to adjust but I've seen it done without adjusting and it's been fine.

11) Have a beer!

Sean Bartnik

Suggestions:

1) I used these seals as they are the good vitron seals and at $15 a deal. http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=021109345VK

2) sometimes the tubes do not want to come out easily. I have some fuel line that fits on my needle nose vise grips to GENTLEY grasp the tubes and twist/pull them toward you to get them out of the head.

3) helps to have everything in there surgically clean or you will have a really big leak compared to what you have now.

4) order yourself up the new valve cover gaskets and do those while you are in there. cleaning the insdie of the valve covers with some 000 steel wool will help ensure they will not leak when they go back in.

5) do one side at a time so you can lgo ook at the other side if you have to figure out how to get the spring back in. observe that as you take it out.

Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:21 pm

quote] That is your problem, or the most pressing one, the engine seal just presses on, take off the old one and follow it around with the new one.[quote]

Didn't you say it wasn't the engine seal but the engine COMPARTMENT seal . :shock:
Methinks one rule for Mightyart nuther for others :wink:

Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:36 pm

lordsniff wrote:
Methinks one rule for Mightyart nuther for others :wink:

Well, of course. :lol:

I didn't want leaky tube engine seals to be confused with engine compartment seal.
It's a bitch communicating with my limited english ability, didn't mean to offend. :lol:

Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:26 am

None taken. :D