TheSamba.com :: View topic - Puzzeling non-start problem.

Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:20 pm

First thing I noticed is when the car is all warmed up the starter drags and sometimes won't turn the engine over. If I let it cool down it would fire right up. So I figured either bad ground or bad starter. But this morning with the car cold it wouldn't start. So I checked and cleaned all the grounds on the car. I follwed all the wires from the starter to the battery and to the push button starter switch. Still no start. Hooked up a charger and let it charge for awhile. When I got it started I put a volt meter on the battery. It was sitting at 12 volts. I check the alternator and it is all over the place bouncing from 12 to 18 volts. I follow the big red wire from the alternator to the battery. There is no voltage regulator? So if there is no voltage regulator and the alternator is all over the map why isn't my battery overcharging??? I am confused......What is the issue here? Could the starter be bad or is it the charging system?

The car is a '67 baja with a 1600DP and has a Bosch alternator instead of a generator.

Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:04 pm

The regulator is built in.

How old is the battery? I've seen hot weather destroy as many batteries as cold does and if you are in the U.S....it's hot!

Check out:

http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

This guy is a genius with all things VW electrical.

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TC

Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:02 pm

If the regulator is built in and the alternator is putting out crazy voltage why isn't it charging my battery? The battery is new. Maybe the starter really is on it's way out? What does a built in regulator look like? There is a plastic plate on top of the alternator. I pulled it out and it had a couple small brushes on it. two wires were hooked to it on the inside of the alternator and one wire ( a blue one) is hooked up on the outside. Is that the internal voltage regulator?

Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:04 pm

Your alterntor should be reading about 14.5v consistently, should not jump around like that. You should have a reading of 14v at the battery when the car is running. But having a bad battery will also not allow your alternator to work properly. You have already covered the basics, I would test the battery next. Later,Mitch.

Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:05 pm

And voltage drop all your cables with a good meter.

Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:09 pm

Quote: There is a plastic plate on top of the alternator. I pulled it out and it had a couple small brushes on it. two wires were hooked to it on the inside of the alternator and one wire ( a blue one) is hooked up on the outside. Is that the internal voltage regulator?

Sounds like you have an generator, not an alternator.

Alternator:

Generator:

or am I reading this wrong?

Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:59 pm

I have an alternator. In the top picture the black plastic plate I was talking about is visible on the right. Maybe the battery IS bad. It has 12 volts even when the car is running. I will have the battery tested and see if that is the problem.
Man, I got a beetle cause I always heard they were simple... :roll:

Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:13 pm

Don't forget about the grounding strip from the front of the transmission to the bottom of the PAN. You might want to replace it or at least clean it.

_=VWBAJA70=_

Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:29 pm

Why not start the car, then disconnect the battery and check output from the alternator. If it's putting out 14v the battery is bad. If the car is unable to run without assistance from the battery, the alt is bad or something is open. Also make sure the battery has enough water in it if required. Imp558

Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:55 am

I cleaned the ground strap from the tranny to the pan. That bit me once on my other car. If I can get it started I will unhook the battery and check voltage or see if it dies.

Could it just be a bad selenoid on the starter and I am making a mountain out of a molehill?

I will report back tonight with my findings.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:24 am

Is the blue wire coming off of the Alternator connected to the dash light and is the dash light connected to power. You need this circut or the alternator will not charge correctly.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:35 am

DesertBob wrote: Is the blue wire coming off of the Alternator connected to the dash light and is the dash light connected to power. You need this circut or the alternator will not charge correctly.

I know for a fact that it is not....I wonder if the wire came loose and that started all this? I just figured it was a dummy light and overlooked the fact that it was dissconnected. I will hook that wire up.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:21 pm

I am going to hook up the idiot light when I get home. But I have been thinking about this all day. Can someone explain to me how a little light in the dash with can cause the battery not to charge? According to the wiring diagrams the blue wire from the voltage regulator goes to this light and the light is grounded. So how can this cause the battery not to charge? I can’t seem to understand this concept……

Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:39 pm

The alt-light is effectively connected *between* battery (+) and alternator output, so it indicates when either side is low, though not both(!). Hence it's on when the ignition is on but before the engine is started and also if the engine is running but the battery getting low or the alternator isn't producing output. It actually performs an important job in providing the initial excitation current to the alternator's field windings.

I know that with my original generator I had bad fluctuation in voltage until I connected up this light correctly. I think I had it grounded and it needed to be connected to the 12v power. Once I did that the voltage was smooth. When I went to an alternator I was told to make sure to connect the blue wire or it wouldn't charge.

This light should not be grounded. The contact that energizes the generator/oil/turn signal light connection from the speedo should be connected to power not ground. My Baja is a 65 and that is how my manual shows the wiring.

Here is the circut for your 67 - K2 is your blue wire. Connect it to the alternator and then complete the circut by connecting the common connection to power. See below:

Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:46 am

I hooked it up and BAM problem gone. I was just going by the diagram on NLS.net It just showed the blue wire going to the light and ending there. I am assuming the light it hooked up right. The wire was just pulled from it's connecter under the rear seat and I plugged it back in. I take it back...I guess Bugs are simple. And now I know why they call that an IDIOT light! :lol: