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Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:34 am

Hey guys,
As many of you know, i am trying to find out why or IF my engine is overheating .....
I am not in the best financial position right now, but i did go to a very reputable VW shop, owned by an old german guy in town..well, he told me my cooling flaps were not working, and that i should have them removed. Charge: $100.00 When he told me this, i got a very sick feeling in the pit of my stomach...i know, from all of my recent Bentley reading, that the cooling flaps default to the open position if the thermostat and cable are not working...needless to say i did NOT go back to this shop...also found out later, that the flaps ARE working...basically this guy LIED...
Anyways, i did go to another so called reputable VW shop about an hour or so, (in bus speed), out of town. The guy checked my timing and told me it was 8 degrees off. He then told me that he set my timing at 7.5 degrees ATDC...well, according to Bentley, the timing for a Cali motor should be 5 degrees ATDC, NOT 7.5...then i asked him if my CAT could have anything to do with it overheating...to that he replied: Is it clogged?? I agree with you guys...is it not HIS job to determine that???
Well, I made an appointment LAST week to go back to this VW shop, and i show up today, sweatin, and the asshole, Mr Attitude, Napleon-complex-midget mechanic, gives me this snarl, and says : " I guess you didn't get my message."...i said, " what message?" He then says that there is nothing he can do to it and that he is not trying to "get rid of me", but there is nothing he can do!!!!! I asked him: "what about vacuum leaks, or unadjusted valves..he says again, there is nothing he can do...i told him that there is something he can do...: stick his finger up his ass!!!!
Its like, if they didnt want to diagnose the prob, then they could have called BEFORE the morning of the job...what idiots and attitudes!!!!
So anyway, i went to the hardware store and bought a oven thermometer, and put it in my engine compartment near the cooling flap rod. I drove home and it was at 150 degrees Fahreinheit, about an hour later. I guess i am not overheating after all. I just wish that Mr. Attitude could have been a little nicer about it. This bus is my baby, and i need this vehicle to perform my job ( I do private duty home health care)...
Anyways, just had to vent about that. I usually don't swear or cuss, but this guy made me so mad. I just wanted to call him back, and tell him that the timing specs for a Cali motor are 5 degrees ATDC NOT 7.5 degrees ATDC...
Guess i will just have to start doing all the work myself. I am going to get AMskeptic here if it kills me. Train me up right!! Maybe I'll open my own shop....
Take care guys, and thanks for all the help. I am sure i will be buggin you all again soon with more inquiries!!! By the way, i sleep with my Bentley!!! ( just kidding)...have a goood one guys!!

Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:47 am

pm Colin/Amskeptic tell him your situation, he is a good man and will work with you. He also has no problem with helping a women. There is a woman baywindow owner on the Baywindow forums her screen name is Elwood-Bluesvan. She seems very nice and is one of Colins/Amskeptics customers. You may want to PM her and ask her what she thinks of Amskeptic.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=37656

And for everyones info. taking the flaps off will cause you engine more harm then leaving them in the open position, when open the left one directs air over the oil cooler correctly. when you take them off they are just letting the air pass where ever it can, that's why the divers side flap is differant from the passenger side. (look in the bentley, can't see it on your engine) so for $100.00 he would have made it a bit worse. :shock:

Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:00 pm

Connie wrote: .... an old german guy .... told me my cooling flaps were not working, and that i should have them removed. Charge: $100.00 When he told me this, i got a very sick feeling in the pit of my stomach .... I would too. This was either a blatant attempt to rip you off, or an idiot's take on your problem.

Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:05 pm

"guess I will start having to do my own work"......now you got it! There are some good mechanics out there, who are honest AND capable. If you know one you're in good shape........otherwise, you're just rolling the dice.

Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:42 pm

If you are really worried about the vitals of your van, you need to add instrumentation. The 3 biggies are oil temp, oil pressure and battery volts. There are threads describing, bascially, how to add them. Since yours is aircoooled, it seems, you will also want a cylinder head temp gauge. With those gauges you will be able to see how strained your engine is by the vital signs that it has.

[Rant ON]
We see soo many posts about my engine this or my engine that and rarely do they have the numbers to back them up. If you don't know what voltage your battery is at, how will you know if it might start your van later? Or "I melted down a head." And so on.

So if you really care, spend the weekend and add the instruments, you will from then on not live in fear of the idiot lights.
[Rant OFF]

Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:44 pm

Connie, give yourself a big pat on the back for educating yourself about your vehicle *before* you went to see these two geniuses. Otherwise you (and your Westy) would be just another victim of their incompetence and greed. You could have been driving around town with a crippled cooling system if the old German guy had convinced you that the cooling flaps needed to be removed, and you would have been at the mercy of an illiterate buffoon if you had not checked the work of the second guy. By taking the initiative to learn about your vehicle, you are on the road to being a better mechanic than either of them, despite their years of experience in the field.

As automobile engines go, the aircooled VW is a pretty simple beast. You are in the unfortunate position of having to learn about the fiddly peripheral bits of the engine without having a good understanding of the basics. I'm sorry, but I'm assuming from the questions you've asked that you have never taken a course in how engines work. If you haven't done so already, I'd highly recommend finding such a course to "fill in the blanks" of your knowledge. The basics apply to pretty much all internal comustion engines and will stand you in good stead regardless of what vehicles you eventually own. Once you understand the fundamentals of the intake system, for example, then you will understand about vacuum leaks and why they are to be avoided.

The oven thermometer idea was brilliant. Although some will argue that it isn't in the ideal place to measure temperature, it gives you a ball-park idea of what sort of temperatures you are dealing with in the engine compartment. 150 Farenheit doesn't sound too far out to me, but then, I've never measured the temperature of my engine at that same spot (and I mentally converted to Celsius years ago :) ). Maybe someone else following your story can install an oven thermometer in the same place on their engine and you can compare readings. I'd do so, but my engine is still in pieces on my kitchen table, so it won't be available for such experiments for awhile yet. :<

Now go hug your kid. Then hug your Westy if you like, but cars don't hug back...

Good Luck

Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:39 pm

read the bentely like a textbook, mine is in the bathroom for quick refresher reading.even if you don't do your own work KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. Glad your engine is OK. Make a voodo doll of bad wrench(timing guy) and tie him to the bumper :!:
time to get yourself some tuneup tools

Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:53 pm

Here is a thought......

Here in Portland, the Adult Education Department offers a basic class on Auto Repair for people who want to learn about their cars and how to take care of them. You bring in your car and they teach you how to do some stuff to it. They supply the tools, you supply the parts.

Sometimes the technical colleges has one day classes on "rebuilding a carb" and stuff like that.

Also lok into joining a VW club down there (where ever that is). There is always somebody to give you a hand in working on a VW around. Some distorted adn socailly challenged humans (and it may be us) actually enjoy working on these things.

Just a thought.....

Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:34 pm

Connie, where are you located? Maybe someone on the board has a good recommendation for a local mechanic?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:53 pm

Quote: taking the flaps off will cause you engine more harm then leaving them in the open position

funny, I agree but, EVERY VW mechanic I ever went to w/ my air cooled VW's have said otherwise and whined if I insisted they be put back on, I've even had to do it all myself when I'm paying them to install the damn engine... :roll:

Quote: spend the weekend and add the instruments

now, not to stir up a whole new can of worms but...heh in the Gene Berg Technical articles, he goes on and on at how worthless and totally inaccurate aftermarket gagues are except for super duper spendy ones...

anyone here ever to some comparison tests ? even with a cooking thermomiter ?
anyone recomend any brand of gagues ?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:09 pm

For real accurate get dakota digital for CHT the real impotant one.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=103155&highlight=dakota
and VDO for the rest. I have all VDO and they work well, I know where it runs normal, I'ts been hot out so my oil temp gauge is showing a few more degrees hotter and the CHT is where it is supposed to be, just what I'd expect.

Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:14 pm

That is too bad that mechanics can do that (and you are the one paying them!). I guess if they can live with their conscience, what can you do? This just makes me want to learn how to do the mechanical work myself.

Anyway, Crankey, Randy (in Maine), has a post that argues for Dakota Digital gauges (I originally wanted VDO to match the VDO clock and speedometer, but this post has me leaning towards Dakota Digitals even though they are more expensive). Randy, can you post this thread? If money is an issue, though, the VDO gauges will work and do the job.

Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:16 pm

Oh, mightyart beat me to the punch! Exactly what mightyart said!

*His post wasn't showing when I replied.

Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:44 am

bigdood,
I am in Venice Florida, just outside of Sarasota. I even went on the AIRS list to find someone in the area that may know of a good VW mechanic, but all their numbers were disconnected. This old German guy i spoke of, has had a shop for years, and people trust him. I don't!! Not after what he said about my cooling flaps!! I have also spoken to quite a few vanagon owners in town and they also suggest i go to this old German guy. I think i will do it myself. If you guys hear of anyone in SW Florida, let me know. I would like to become his apprentice. Hmmm...maybe i WILL open my own shop, and with my nursing skills, if anyone gets hurt i can assist in that department too....not a bad idea!! :wink:

Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:40 am

Being that my old man is one of those old school German Masters of all (most) things old German car related, I can add a bit. They all have a few superstitions. Seems the air flaps is one. Then again, you have a hard time trying to talk away experience. It seems anything that restricts the air flow is bad. More air flow is better and that is what he is striving for. There is a high probablity (in his mind) they are stuck. Why bother with such in your climatic area? At least that is the drift I have gotten on the subjuect from my dad and others of his era.

My $0.02, Walt in San Diego...

Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:53 am

the type 4 motor is differant than the rest, it has to do with the right flap. The left flap is just a flap, remove it and you get better air flow, the right one dirrects the cold air over the oil cooler, if you take it out you are restricting the airflow to oil cooler, thus making the oil temps hotter.
click on this page and look at illistation in the left bottom corner.

Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:11 am

Hey mightyart,

Do you think you could post a link to those pages in the Vanagon Sticky area (or did you already)? I have seen those pages before, and they are very handy to be able to reference. Aren't they Randy in Maine's or Amskeptic's? Anyway, that would be a great reference if you could do that! Take care!

Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:28 am

pocvw wrote: Hey mightyart,

Do you think you could post a link to those pages in the Vanagon Sticky area (or did you already)? I have seen those pages before, and they are very handy to be able to reference. Aren't they Randy in Maine's or Amskeptic's? Anyway, that would be a great reference if you could do that! Take care!

They are Amsketics drawings for the book he is writing they are in his Gallery.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Amskeptic
I guess I could post a link to his gallery, it's got other stuff in it to.