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Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:30 pm

I'm working on a bone-cold, stock restoration of my 63 Beetle. Now I'm not sure if I'll ever enter her into a car show, but I would like to know what the judges look for. What are common mistakes people make in a restoration? Are there details people often overlook? If so, what?

Also, how original must a car be to be considered an original? Is there much wiggle room? For example, would an OG car with a new paint job still be considered OG?

Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:04 am

Judging is often very different from show to show and usually what happens is the judges base the decisions on a check list-style sheet provided to them by the event organizers.

The check list will cover everything. For example:
- engine
- chassis
- suspension
- wheels
- tires
- body
- trim
- interior:
- upholstery
- carpeting
- headliner
- body rubber (window seals, door, deck, hood seals)
- trunk space
- engine bay
- fit and finish (paint and over-all appearance)

Often there will also be a "judge's opinion" item that allows the judge to place a value on how well the vehicle is represented or finished or even presented to the public (drive-in tray in window, cooler on roof rack etc).

It's really quite hard for some catagories due to the number of entries and since it's rare to find a truly "original" car (though they are out there) and so it becomes a coin toss when comparing for example a perfectly restored '66 sedan to say a little worn around the edges, unrestored, original '66 sedan.
This is often where the judge's opinion vote can make the difference.

The judged items listed above are usually rated on some kind of point scale where (for example) 1 is poor and 10 is perfect. This also includes the judges "opinion" vote too.
So if you were to say enter your "stock" '66 BUT maybe had it converted to 12v and let's say the engine was converted to a 1600cc but otherwise the car looked perfectly stock, then the judge would have to "rate" your car lower on the engine and electrical catagories because they are not stock anymore for that particular model year.
As far as wheels and tires go:
Any wheel that was available as a dealer option in the era of your model is not usually a deduction. So for example, you could run EMPI 5-spokes on your '66 and not receive a deduction for "wheels" because they are not the stock steel wheels with 2-year only hub cap.
In general tires are not deducted if they are not the original Continental bias-ply tires either but that's more of a practical issue of keeping and maintaining a vintage automobile for driving on today's roads, thus radial tires of appropriate "near stock" size would generally not be a deduction for safety sake.
Now, that said; if you were running EMPI 5's on 165r15 radials on your perfectly restored '66 and someone else entered their "frayed around the edges" totally original '66 with steel wheels/hub caps and bias ply tires, then the judge would likely default a better score to the latter car simply because it's a "survivor".

So as you can see it's very much a coin toss for some events since it's not always a "fair" comparison with other potential entrants in your chosen catagory. WHICH makes the actual category you enter your ride in quite important. You really should take into consideration what your car IS..
Is it "modified"?
Is it "custom"?
Or is it actually stock?
It would be better to enter your "stock" in stock category even if you take a deduction on engine for 1600cc when it should have been smaller displ. then to enter it in "modified" or "custom" since these two catagories can be ANYTHING GOES kind of comparison....
By that I mean, your car may be "custom' in that you used special wheels for example BUT you are going to be compared to every other custom out there and some of them are bottom-less wallet, WILD rides with massive thought and ideas dumped into them. Suddenly, your "custom' ride doesn't look so "custom" anymore next to a fire-breathing, chopped and channeled, exotic paint job on 19" custom-built wheels... You see?

Yes. Judges can and often do get picky about how well executed your restoration was done. They'll look for period correct air cleaner and appropriate pre-heat hose(s) and matching engine tin etc. They may look for the correct flasher assembly, spare tire and jack, washer bottle, glove box insert, paint color for that model year etc. That's the whole purpose to judging and point-scoring each entry.

Then finally after all the scrutinizing is done by "judges", there are often other awards such as "People's choice" (one of my personal faves) which really just measures what the attending audience thinks of your ride. The People's choice usually isn't about point scoring on specifics but rather what kind of "impression" your ride left on them as they walked around the show. This is where presentation of your car can be the "swing vote".

One show I ALWAYS attend in my area is the Eureka Springs Show and there you will often see really well presented Vdubs even if the actual car is not a perfect specimen.
One I recall in particular is a beautiful black oval window. Even though the car is almost perfect, it's how they present it that makes so much impression on the general attendance. This Beetle always has a black-and-white checkboard floor covering under it (like it's sitting on the show room floor 50 years ago). It has a small bullentin board with "50 years ago...president was, Coca Cola cost x per 8oz bottle, the Yankees were ranked ... " etc... They also play a radio-loop with period music and such...
So this Beetle could have a few scratches in the paint, maybe a well worn interior (it doesn't but by way of example) and it would score better with most folks and probably with the judges too in the "opinion" vote.

Judging is very tough at some shows and yet at other's it's anything-goes...

Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:10 am

Thanks very much for the in-depth reply. I appreciate it. It clears up a lot of things I had been wondering about. I asked because I was wondering what sort of criteria there was and also because I was wondering while judging if there was ever the sentiment that "Hardly anyone ever seems to get that quite right." -referring to an often repeated mistake or oversight that commonly occurs during a restoration. Mistakes and oversights I hope to avoid if at all possible...

Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:00 am

in the 70's,80's when i judged for vvwca meets you were allowed 1/4 on paint touch up and still be original class. safety upgrades like brakes,12 volts,shocks were ok.. now most car shows are judged by spectaters.

Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:17 am

I mostly like the people's choice type of show. Here in the U.K. these type of shows have been gaining ground partly because of a lack of support for the out and out Concours events.

A lot of people who entered Concours events in the past have been exasperated to find their slightly imperfect original beauties have been beaten by big money "wipe the slate clean and start again" restorations.

Both have their place but for me the disection of the car to see if it complies to factory spec is a step too far. I like a car to wear it's history for all to see.

Present your car to please yourself...if on the way you please others, count that as a bonus.

Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:42 am

I have attended show were you did get points for being a driven car. yes the lil paint chip helped you verses a trailer queen car.
The show that is done locallly here is like that the trailer queens generally do not win nor do the concourse cars.

Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:09 pm

For some judged shows they also look for items such as safety flares, reflective trianngle, first aid kit and other safety items.etc. also tool kit. One show it came down to a car with state insection sticker. Ask for a judging sheet!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:37 pm

[email protected] wrote:
The check list will cover everything. For example:
- engine
- chassis
- suspension
- wheels
- tires
- body
- trim
- interior:
- upholstery
- carpeting
- headliner
- body rubber (window seals, door, deck, hood seals)
- trunk space
- engine bay
- fit and finish (paint and over-all appearance)

Bone stock/dead stock is what is mentioned above. Nothing less and certianly nothing more. It is to be presented as it left the factory so I would invest in a birth certificate first to get all of the correct information. Second, NO ACCESSORIES. Nothing cute, quirky, my wife liked it, something from the kids, nothing. This is to be a factory origional.

---Over resotred [no overspray, straight fenders on a model t, bright headlamps]

---Showroom restored [pinstripe, twotone, dealership accessories, metal decals, badging]

---AACA.org style restored [as it rolled off of the production line]
http://www.aaca.org/publications/judgesmanual2005.pdf

I judge for AACA at local and regional shows. This is the manual I have to obide by when I judge cars. Gecko has a good start. Also, there are differences of resoration too.

You will also need to purchase a book about restoring beetles so you can find out everything on how it was put together. Not that the sambe is a good source, just that the workers were consulted on how it was built and what to look for as a vintage restoration.

Best of luck!!!

~matt