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Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:54 pm

satcom80911 wrote: Anyone know if there are any potentially negative ramifications of installing a 3-4 psi electric pump under the fuel tank other than accessibility? I am planning on using steel braided aircraft fuel lines with fittings from tank to carbs (as I have ready access to them) and installing a relay that will operate the pump and open the cutoff valve that will be directly under the tank, (pre-pump), when energized and allow the valve to close when power is removed for positive fuel control in the event of fire.

that is an ideal place to install your pump... the only potentially negative thing is you now have more pressurized fuel line than you do with a factory setup... that said, any leaky lines should be dealt with accordingly reguardless of where your pump is located.

Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:06 am

http://cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1259

has anyone run of these? seems like it would be a cure-all for the fire mishapes and fuel filter issues?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:51 pm

bugninva wrote: satcom80911 wrote: Anyone know if there are any potentially negative ramifications of installing a 3-4 psi electric pump under the fuel tank other than accessibility? I am planning on using steel braided aircraft fuel lines with fittings from tank to carbs (as I have ready access to them) and installing a relay that will operate the pump and open the cutoff valve that will be directly under the tank, (pre-pump), when energized and allow the valve to close when power is removed for positive fuel control in the event of fire.

that is an ideal place to install your pump... the only potentially negative thing is you now have more pressurized fuel line than you do with a factory setup... that said, any leaky lines should be dealt with accordingly reguardless of where your pump is located.

-- I don't think leaky lines will be an issue for quite some time. The steel braided fuel line is 1/4" rated at 600 psi. The fittings should make better connections than hose clamps as far as connections leaking under pressure. Thank you for your input..... it is very much appreciated.

Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:01 pm

unknown force wrote: http://cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1259

has anyone run of these? seems like it would be a cure-all for the fire mishapes and fuel filter issues?

-- I'm not sure what you're meaning by "cure all" for fires, but the water separator does only that - it removes any water you may get in your fuel. As far as helping with fire potential, it is more or less a passive device that will still allow fuel to gravity feed through it and not provide any sort of supply shut-off or significant flow restriction. You really shouldn't need to use one unless you are somehow letting water into your tank.

Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:59 pm

o i was under the impression that it was a fuel filter with the water filter added on to it since it says fuel filter on it :?:

Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:22 pm

satcom80911 wrote: Anyone know if there are any potentially negative ramifications of installing a 3-4 psi electric pump under the fuel tank other than accessibility? I am planning on using steel braided aircraft fuel lines with fittings from tank to carbs (as I have ready access to them) and installing a relay that will operate the pump and open the cutoff valve that will be directly under the tank, (pre-pump), when energized and allow the valve to close when power is removed for positive fuel control in the event of fire.

How are you going to get it from the tank to the engine cmopartment? In the tunnel or under the car? Just curious.

If fire is that big of a concern for people, install a halong system in the engine compartment....two nozzels should be plenty. :lol:

Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:57 am

Mark33563 wrote:

How are you going to get it from the tank to the engine compartment? In the tunnel or under the car? Just curious.

I am going to run it in the tunnel like the OEM line because I don't want to take any chances of knocking the line under the car should I accidentally run over something on the highway. I'm thinking the tunnel would probably be the best bet to help avoid accidents with the lines even though it makes inspecting a bit harder, I can still keep an eye on my fuel pressure gauge in the dash to help indicate any leaks. As far as all the worry about fires, most of us have put years of work, sweat and blood into our cars (a little at a time) and want to minimize the chance of anything (like a fire) destroying it all in only a few minutes....... :D

Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:53 am

if you are going to go to the trouble to run the line in the tunnel i recommend hard piping it... even steel braided line degrades with time and a hardpipe can last for another 35-50 years...

Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:55 am

bugninva wrote: if you are going to go to the trouble to run the line in the tunnel i recommend hard piping it... even steel braided line degrades with time and a hardpipe can last for another 35-50 years...
Exactly... steel braid mostly is just a cover over rubber hose. No w there is teflon lined steel braid that lasts longer, but it's more expensive.

Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:05 pm

Last month my daily driver 74 std bug had an engine fire. I pulled over to the side of the road after seeing a fireball in my rear view mirror at 60 mph. Scared me half to death! As I was dialing 911 on the trusty cell phone, a young fellow came from nowhere and offered to put the fire out with a chemical extingusher. He really saved the day and my bug! I had expected to see the car burn to the ground.

Now for the problems--I believe I had at least a couple. The brass carburetor inlet nipple was found setting on top of the carb with a 1" remnant piece of nice new German fuel hose still clamped to it. It must have vibrated loose from the top casting. Previously about 6 months earlier I had the pivot pin fall out of the fuel pump. Now I'm thinking excess vibration...

So, as I am putting the car back in order with new alternator, wiring harness, distributor, blue coil, hoses, I've noticed that a PO must have pried on the inner half of the alt pully and distorted it enough to cause a real wiggle. Never noticed that before as only the outer pulley half is readily visible when the engine is running, and it is a smooth as silk.

I think at high speed, the distorted pulley probably contributed to the loosening of the inlet tube as well as the fuel pump pivot pin. I've located a Brazilian alternator pulley with fins to replace the good old black one. Also, have learned a trick on how to loosen the foam around the wiring harness above the left rear wheel by using a 2ft length of plumbers tape. I'm torn between using the old Solex carb with the tube Loctite'd back in place, or a brand new shiny Bocar replacement...

Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:50 pm

The inlet fitting came out on mine also. It quickly drenched the engine in gas. I roughed up the surface of the brass tube and pounded it back in along with adding a securing safety wire like Glenn recommended. That was a couple years ago. One of these days I want to look at the carb and see if there is enough meat there to tap threads and use a threaded barb. Fix the Solex. It's a better carb.

Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:04 pm

If this has been answered, forgive me, but my fuel line comming from the pump to the filter is 5mm, and the line from the filter to the carb is somewhat larger, I'm guessing 7mm or 7.7mm.
I want to relocate my filter, but how should I connect to the larger brass fitting with the smaller line from the pump?
Also, with all the talk about the added weight of a fuel filter pulling on the brass fitting,..I still need a good clamp on the line at the brass fitting,..right?

Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:07 pm

Berf wrote: Last month my daily driver 74 std bug had an engine fire. I pulled over to the side of the road after seeing a fireball in my rear view mirror at 60 mph. Scared me half to death! As I was dialing 911 on the trusty cell phone, a young fellow came from nowhere and offered to put the fire out with a chemical extingusher. He really saved the day and my bug! I had expected to see the car burn to the ground.

Now for the problems--I believe I had at least a couple. The brass carburetor inlet nipple was found setting on top of the carb with a 1" remnant piece of nice new German fuel hose still clamped to it. It must have vibrated loose from the top casting. Previously about 6 months earlier I had the pivot pin fall out of the fuel pump. Now I'm thinking excess vibration...

So, as I am putting the car back in order with new alternator, wiring harness, distributor, blue coil, hoses, I've noticed that a PO must have pried on the inner half of the alt pully and distorted it enough to cause a real wiggle. Never noticed that before as only the outer pulley half is readily visible when the engine is running, and it is a smooth as silk.

I think at high speed, the distorted pulley probably contributed to the loosening of the inlet tube as well as the fuel pump pivot pin. I've located a Brazilian alternator pulley with fins to replace the good old black one. Also, have learned a trick on how to loosen the foam around the wiring harness above the left rear wheel by using a 2ft length of plumbers tape. I'm torn between using the old Solex carb with the tube Loctite'd back in place, or a brand new shiny Bocar replacement...

Rebuild and rebush the German Solex carburetor. Knurl and locktite the fuel inlet fitting. Find a German alternator pulley. It's generally known that German ACVW parts are better quality used than Brazilian ACVW parts are when new. Have you checked the condition of your rear trans/engine mounts?

Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:10 pm

I too had the brass inlet on carb come loose and cause a fire in my 66 bug in high school. After jumping out and noticing the fire I opened the hood and ripped out my gas tank which thankfully wasn't bolted down. I then went to get a fire extinguisher from a nearby house and by the time I had gotten back the fire was out. I never have been anywhere in an aircooled VW without an extinguisher since.

My theory is that if you could put a solenoid under the gas tank that shuts off the fuel when the key is turned off it would be much easier to put fires out since you wouldn't be gravity feeding gas straight into the fire or hot engine compartment. Has anyone done this and if so have they been able to test it?

Something like this

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/4008

Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:31 am

Yes, that solenoid valve would work fine. I worked for a utility company for a good number of years and we used those valves to control a wide variety of functions on all types of equipment. They are very reliable.

Fred

Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:59 am

Hey Guys,

I know this probably isn't correct but it does work, when I got my THing someone had looped 2 wire-ties together in a long loop and hung the gas filter in it from an attach point at the top of the engine bay door (there were some pre-made holes to make use of) so it took the weight off the carb inlet and lifted the gas line and filter away and up from the distributor and engine.

It works, i finally found a filter that would work at Napa but it too had the smooth ends for the fuel line, i got it clamped good. May not be the best way to hang it, someone suggested mounting it off to one side as best.
Looking at Bughaus.com now for the braided fuel line, hope I can find some of the larger braided hose for the carbon canister too.

Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:40 am

Quote: too had the brass inlet on carb come loose

This has been covered earlier (I think) - A cheap and easy "insurance" for this problem is to usea a safety wire (I think I got the idea from Glenn) You get a piece of hardware wire (usually sold on a small roll - I think maybe 20 gauge) and make a loop. Go through your clamp and then around a screw on top of the carb. Twist the ends together. It keeps the fitting from pulling out. I do the same thing on my fuel filters - loop the wire from one clamp - across the filter - through the other clamp and twist the ends together. Prevents the hoses from ever slipping off. This should never happen to me anyway since my fuel filters have barbed ends, but I do it to play it safe.

Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:53 pm

i hear of this happening alot but usually the person made a mistake of some kind while messing with the motor or gas tank. also these cars are getting uop there in age and many old cars are at a risk of serious mechanical faliures such as fires 8)

Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:16 pm

peace,love ,VW wrote: i hear of this happening alot but usually the person made a mistake of some kind while messing with the motor or gas tank. also these cars are getting uop there in age and many old cars are at a risk of serious mechanical faliures such as fires 8)
Fires happen because people don't maintain their vehicles.

Fuel hose was never intended to last forever.

Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:21 pm

Fire is not a mechanical failure. Fire is the result of other failures. Prevent those and you prevent fires.

Max