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Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:27 am

sorry for my bad english
a 4 cam split windows motor that is nice NO ?????????

Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:09 pm

That is wild! Do you have any more information?
Later,
Al

Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:22 pm

Interesting serial number

CFK 1002 with an etched looking number above it 45 1040 49

Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:08 pm

I am not an Engineer, so can not speak to what the heck that thing is.
Looks very one off though, Ob.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:05 am

Pretty interesting. Almost looks like a pre-cursor to the Porsche 356 Carrerra 4 Cam (Here's a $5000 model of that engine you can buy: [url](http://www.scaleautoworks.com/356fourcam.html[/url]

But this one has open pipes, direct drive cam (no pushrods presumably) and what looks like little design to cool the heads. With the magneto distributor I wonder if maybe it was designed for some kind of aircraft.

The exhaust ports drop down out of the heads, instead of out of the ends, and you can see the oil return tubes from the heads to the case (no push rod tubes for that).

1:1 crank to fan pulley ratio (like the Porsche 4 Cam) would indicate that this puppy is designed to run fast. What is interesting is that the cooling air seems to be aimed mostly at the cylinders and not the heads (where the real heat is) and with a very small cooling air outlet pipe. It looks like a bad cooling design to me, but again, if in the front of an aircraft, maybe the flow dynamics are totally different.

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:15 pm

here are what I know about this engine
it was built in the beginning of the years 1950 for a racing racing car by Italian .
but I do not remember more his name
! MR PORSCHE learned the born of this engine
it moved in Italy to discuss with Italian a few years later the carrera engine had been born
the question is: who had idea of the engine 4 cams Italian or Mr. Porsche???????

Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:19 am

prea50, what country are you from? If you are German I can help with the language.

The 4-cam engine in the early 1950's was developed by the young Porsche engineer Ernst Fuhrmann. I don't know if it was actually his own idea, or if such an "idea" already existed at Porsche, coming either from Ferry Porsche himself, his father, or maybe the VW engine engineer Franz Reimspiess.

Adapting overhead cam cylinder heads had been done for years on other makes; even on the Model T in the USA in the '20's, 30',s and '40's there were clever engineers/tinkerers that made such conversions and even kits. Zora Arkus-Duntov, who was the prime developer of the Chevy corvette in the early 1950's, made an overhead-cam cylinder head kit for the Ford V8 engine in the 1940's named the Ardun head. I can;t remember if it was also a 4-cam setup (2 cams per head on the V8).

My former boss at work knew that in WW2, German Navy personnel landing craft were powered by a high-performance version of the VW engine that had enormous power but only needed to last not even an hour. I don't recall if those had 4-cam heads of a primitive design, if those heads/that engine was developed by the Porsche design firm, or at the VW R&D group already up in Wolfsburg at the time. Was the name of that engine "Apfelbeck"? I can find out from my boss next time I call him. John Henry, do you know of any such reference to this engine? Or are you not really interested in non-stock VW engines? OKRASA Joe in CA would be the guy to ask...

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:08 pm

Just remembered- Not "Apfelbeck", but Vogelsang- that was the name of the head or engine version for the landing craft! Apfelbeck was the last name of a cylinder head specialist in Germany that worked on BMW heads in the mid-century, and probably others too.

Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:53 pm

NEW INFORMATIONS ON THUSDAY !!! wait !

Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:19 pm

HERE some news i have use a transalator sorry !

INDUSTRIAL ESPIONAGE
In 1949 one saw passing on the Italian roads a racing racing car to the extraordinary engine it resembled curiously has that which was going to arrive later the ENGINE CARRERA
was one 4 cylinders flat tint has four cams at the head but the casing did not carry the Porsche mark but of the initial CFM
Three letters which testify to what carries out has MAESTRE close to VENICE LUIGI CHINELLATO and CARLINO FRANCESCON two genious manufacturers
They had proven reliable by preparing FIAT Topolino and even successful to make a podium with the MILE MILES in the category. With L time the Italian wizards used military vehicles reform.
C is as well as the two friends go floor on an engine of KUBELWAGEN They draw cylinder heads has two camshafts qu they make realize by the close foundry The CAM are involve by bevel gears with the magneto scintillated and two carburettor WEBER the engine whose cubic capacity was reduced A 750 DC with a ratio of 11.5/1 will leave 84 CH. has 6500 by burning a mixture has base D alcohol
Little before the MILLE MILLES of 1949, L German engineer BOHLIN and FERDINAND PORSCHE go to Italy to see this engine
Italian gives up the engine can afterwards. In 1956 Porsche who took part in the turn of TUSCANY took again part of the innovations of Italian

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:07 am

looks like a mid 60's joe hunt magneto for ignition.

Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:41 am

[quote="Rome"]

My former boss at work knew that in WW2, German Navy personnel landing craft were powered by a high-performance version of the VW engine that had enormous power but only needed to last not even an hour. I don't recall if those had 4-cam heads of a primitive design, if those heads/that engine was developed by the Porsche design firm, or at the VW R&D group already up in Wolfsburg at the time. Was the name of that engine "Apfelbeck"? I can find out from my boss next time I call him. John Henry, do you know of any such reference to this engine? Or are you not really interested in non-stock VW engines? OKRASA Joe in CA would be the guy to ask...[/quote]

"high-performanve version of the VW engine" is a mild understatement. The engines used on the landing craft were 4-cylinders and air cooled, but that is all the similarities. It is not a VW/Porsche design - I am not sure of the designer/manufacturer. It is 3 liters volume. I attach some pictures of a recently restored one of these. From a seceret garage in the Norwegian woods..

Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:45 am

[img]http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=230655[/img]

Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:46 am

[img]http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=230656[/img]

Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:06 am

Wow. That is awesome. Would love to shoehorn that into a Beetle..... :shock:

Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:22 am

Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:30 am

WTF!!! Swamp coolers??

Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:28 pm

thank you very much for those photos, splitpersonality! I've never seen that engine. I agree that there sure does not appear any similarity with a VW engine. I'll inform my former boss of these photos! Wonder how fast it'd go with some dual Webers?! :D

John, maybe no room in a Beetle, but how about a Barndoor Bus?!

Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:51 am

The Apfelbeck head idea lives on HERE

Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:01 am

MdR, are you saying that Apfelbeck also experimented with VW heads in that time? If so, do YOU have such a head or engine?! :o