TheSamba.com :: View topic - What pan would you suggest to put under my Zwitter?

Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:18 am

'52 Zwitter is currently sitting on the original pan and is in good shape. I am going to "hotrod" this thing. I have a 2335cc built for it and now wondering what year pan / suspension would get me a low kewl look along with a good handling ride? Swing vs. IRS? Link Pin vs. Ball joint? I am also going to disc brake all four corners. Do not want the heavy camber look in the rear and don't want to narrow the front so much it becomes a tricycle.

Looking for pics and advice on what you have done and not done.

Thanx in Advance,
pachoo

Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:10 am

No pics, BUT

If I wanted to do that- I'd go with an IRS- ball joint. Four wheel disk brakes, go nuts.

KEEP the Original pan on the side, if you ever go to sell it or want to resotre it in 20 years.

I have heard from alot of people that the IRS rides nicer. CAVEOT- I have only owned Swing Axles.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:33 am

Let's see if I remember how to include photos:

I've since sold this car, but with the stock 4-lug wheel treatment the car does not look excessively "modern". I did lower the car slightly, namely about 1 1/2" in the rear, and drop spindles in front. F&R HD swaybars, 12V system, and a stock 1600 with Kads that ran better than it should.

IRS pan is no doubt the way to go. The small bit of welding in the rear wheelwell to raise up the rear body mount can easily be undone if you want to install the original pan in the future.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:59 am

My buddy is hotrodding his 49 standard (for now until he gathers all the correct parts for a vintage restoration) and he placed a 69 pan under it for a better ride with the IRS rear end.
He has the original pan but it is in rough shape.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:59 pm

Why does everyone think you are limited and need to go IRS? A zwitter pan is way easier to manipulate and return to stock than say a pre 52 double glovebox split pan. Other than an IRS tranny which is a joke to me, especially if you arent planning to slam the car low in the rear, whats the true bennefits? Balljoint front ends dont impress me besides, the cutting and modifying of the rear body to pan mount scares me. DMV registration etc. Do you register it as the year of the later pan? Just my opinion.
Not trying to down anybody that has used an IRS pan on a split before or non split, just trying to figure out what folks are affraid of. If it were a standard with cable brakes then I could understand.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:43 pm

I have always used and have stuck with original swing axle pans. I have always had good luck with them.

I don't race and have not slammed it.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:06 pm

Well it all depends on the person if you want 5 lug and IRS I recomend finding a 1967 pan, best of both worlds, if you stay with the swing I like the mid 60's pans, usually in better shape and easier to find parts for. It's all in what is available in your area and local junk yards. I do recomend keeping your Original pan and stashing it away so if you ever sell it you have all the original parts, making it worth more.
Just be careful with that engine, every time I see a big engine go into a classic, not long after I see a classic being parted out because they ended up wrapping it around a tree.
Gary

Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:14 pm

67 and 68 are swingaxle, Not IRS. They are good for busses and 12volt flywheels.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:20 pm

I would use the OG pan.

You can replace the original beam and drivetrain later down the road. I think putting IRS and Balljoint parts under an early bug sucks. IMO

It wouldnt hurt your pan a bit to lower the beam and rear a little and install a fast engine. There is nothing you could do to that pan that isnt irreversible!

Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:50 pm

Slowlow_70bugg wrote: I would use the OG pan.

You can replace the original beam and drivetrain later down the road. I think putting IRS and Balljoint parts under an early bug sucks. IMO

It wouldnt hurt your pan a bit to lower the beam and rear a little and install a fast engine. There is nothing you could do to that pan that isnt irreversible!

Especially on a zwitter pan. That pan's almost identical to any pan up to 55 as far as mechanicals are concerned. Im running a 1915, dual 48 IDA's, built KCR tranny, 4 wheel disk brakes and still kept my OG split pan. All I had to do was change the front tranny mount with a Berg mount. Swapping pans with an IRS just seems like more work since you will be adding all those upgrades anyways.

Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:39 pm

What the hell is "handling ride"? :P

Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:12 am

I am running a 67 12v trans and a 1914 on my Zwitter with original pan. Works well. Original front end. Tires are Goodyear aqua tread something 195/65 R15's. THey grip reaaly well.

Everything seems tight and the added power is nice.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:55 am

In my photo above, I did not provide the details of the pan. The car was a 12/52 build and did have its original pan. The pan did have several rot sections, and before I contemplated fixing them, I was given an abandoned '73 Beetle which had a relatively sold pan. My Zwitter had a crudely welded front clip from mid-50's by a PO, as well as a later "40hp") rear apron. Since I had already performed 2 chassis swaps before and the fact that the later clips made the car a 'bastard" anyway, I had no qualms going for the '73 pan. The engine was mostly a stock 1600 DP with Kadrons. The wheels are stock '72 std Beetle 4 1/2" with the 34mm offset; tires are 165 in front and 185/65 in rear. I painted the center sections of the wheels black to hide the presence of the wheel's cooling holes.

I just wonder if the folks who responded above which had kept swingaxle rear axles in their cars, have ever driven their cars hard around corners, then driven an IRS car with F&R swaybars and good brakes, to feel the difference. For me, the active safety of a more modern chassis and suspension setup was far more important than some partial upgrades of a swingaxle setup. And I do enjoy taking turns hard in an IRS type 1, especially when most people in other cars tend to back off.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:14 pm

Yeah, but why settle for 70's bug technology if you are going that far. I would just start putting porsche arms and axles and struts too!

Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:49 pm

Ok...half of you say switch it and the other half say keep the OG pan. Now I am a little confused. I have several donor pans to choose from...I was just wondering which year is going to get me the look, ride, and strong shifting I want? I am tring to lower the rear of the car about 2 inches and lower the front of the car about 3 inches. I do not want the rear tires to have a lot of camber and I do not what to narrow the front too much. I plan on using Rader wheels and disc brakes on all four corners.

This is what I am starting with...Yep, that is about it.
So, hotrodding this ride is not a heartbreaking endvour to me.

Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:06 pm

Use the OG pan. Especially seeing as you are just starting from a roller.

Maybe if it was an excellently pristine Resto...... nah hell, I would still use the OG pan.

OG!!!! And that will be one nice car, judging from the description!

Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:52 pm

Here is a shot of what your Zwitter pan could look like. I chose to use my OG pan because as stated above, it will be very easy to convert back to clean stocker (like I ever would care to...). The only thing I had to do was change the floor pans as mine were unfortunately not useable. But no sense paying for another pan while you have a perfectly good one under your car already.

This is what my zwitter rag will sit on:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=229414

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:49 pm

nivag wrote: Here is a shot of what your Zwitter pan could look like. I chose to use my OG pan because as stated above, it will be very easy to convert back to clean stocker (like I ever would care to...). The only thing I had to do was change the floor pans as mine were unfortunately not useable. But no sense paying for another pan while you have a perfectly good one under your car already.

This is what my zwitter rag will sit on:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=229414

remember you will have to pull the truss bar off to put the body back on. by the way where did you get the brackets to mount the aluminum beam?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:46 am

I had it custom made here in Vancouver, He also made me a trick litle steering damp mount.

Just had the bar mounted for moch up.

Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:51 pm

Forget swapping the chassis, forget hotrodding the thing and sell it to me!