TheSamba.com :: View topic - M-code plate help

Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:53 am

busdaddy wrote: BTW the lock I posted has a VW logo followed by Witte velbert and a part # 211 829 211 G.

Thanks for posting that partnr. I looked it up in the august 1970 parts list. And it is listed! Description is as follows:

211 829 211 G "Lock with release, inner - Rear panel lid (Camping Car)"

The model description for this part is:
M517, M518: 231
M500/517: 234

I find this model description a bit strange. I can't imagine M500 has anything to do with this lock since M500 is the code for the full-width partition. (model 231 is an LHD Kombi and model 234 is an RHD kombi). Reading this I would think the lock is part of M517: VW campmobile. which would basically means any Westfalia would have had this lock, but you say you have seen a lot of them without this option.

Anyway, I'll keep an eye out whenever I see a factory original early bay Westy somewhere and search for this option. Or are there people reading this, owning a 1968-1971 factory original westy and can tell if they have this lock or not?

Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:10 am

molenari wrote: 211 829 211 G "Lock with release, inner - Rear panel lid (Camping Car)"

It gets even stranger because that lock doesn't offer a way to release it from inside unless you are prepared to shove your nicely manicured digit into the greasy mechanism and manipulate the lever the outer button depresses. That black knob only locks it from the inside to prevent opening from inside or out, good for the paranoid camper who forgot to lock the hatch from the outside but useless as an escape.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:11 am

26 OF
181 517 518
21 426 056 095 119
2310 523325 8039746

Buggy27 wrote: Thanks, that was the first place I tried.

It does not tell me what the paint codes are or what that stinkin 21 stands for.

hmmmm.....guess I will have to keep searching, just thought someone on here had a clue.

Hi Joe,
Are you sure there is an 'F' standing on the end of the first line? These plates do excist with an 'E' at this position.

The 21 stands for:
2: 1600 cc engine with M157 (= with exhaust emission control system)
1: 4-speed manual gearbox

the colour code must be read as follows:
523325
5: special paint instruction. Every original Westfalia has a special paint instruction. This is because the inside of a camper needed to be painted in the same colour as the outside of the van. A regular type 23 had a grey/beige cargo compartment.
23: the special paint instruction was applied to a VW type 23 (= VW Kombi, a delivery van with windows)
325: number of the special paint instruction. I don't know for sure the meaning of this code. I have seen it once before. This was on a 1968 microbus. The owner thought it was Titian Red L555. I am curious if this is right. So if you ever have the chance to compare the colour of your bus with a sample of Titian Red L555, let us know the result!

By the way:
It seems the bottom line of the plate starts with '2310' instead of two letters. This is the place where the export destination would have been mentioned. Since this place is empty it means the bus was originally delivered somewhere in West-Germany.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:32 am

bjjpdx wrote: As far as I can read this is my M code I had to guess some on the second line the E63677 there was a rivet right through half of it. 1977 Not sure what it all means. From reading previous posts I got that the 61 means 2000 cc with FI

72 161 183
E63677 D03 227 226
24 1 7307 2316 61
_________________

Decode Results:
(...)
Options
d03: Code Group: 0127,067,073,102
227: Detachable headrest in cab
246: Windshield free from import-duty for USA

That's right, the 61 stands for 2000cc FI engine (6) with manual 4-speed transmission (1)

D03 stands for these M-codes on model 1977 vehicles:
005: Heater outlet in seat box of rear bench seat
012: Exhaust emission control installation and speedometer in miles instead of Kilometers
067: 12 V 54 A battery instead of standard 12 V 45 A battery
102: Rear window heating
206: Inner rearviewmirror, anti dazzle
235: mountings for headrests for all seats in passenger compartment

between codes '7307' and '2316 61' should be two letters indicating the export destination.

On the place where the rivet has been punched through a letter was probabaly an 'E'. So then the paint code would be:
E6E677. Making it a Chrome yellow bus.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:37 am

ratherb-buggin wrote: I busted out some suds and wax this weekend! After sitting for 25 years there was PLENTY of oxidation and grime. I didn't wax all of it or get it super-clean. I need to detail it more. Here are a few pics.
(...)

(...)

Hi ratherb-buggin,

Do you have an indication yet what the original colour of your bus might be? It is hard to tell form the pictures. It looks like some sort of soft yellow. But it is not a standard bus colour from that model year.

Intersting rust hole in that fresh air box under the dashboard. I have never seen a rust-hole at that spot.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:06 pm

Thought i would bring my m code over and see what it says. I still cant determine what the code d04 means. Ive seen it discussed, but i dont think anything came of it.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:22 pm

anyone care to do mine? TIA

Whats the E on the top line for?

Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:21 pm

wakka420 wrote: Thought i would bring my m code over and see what it says. I still cant determine what the code d04 means. Ive seen it discussed, but i dont think anything came of it.

On model year 1975 buses group code D04 stands for these M-codes:

005 - Heater outlet in seat box of rear bench seat
012 - Exhaust emission control installation and speedometer in miles instead of Kilometers
067 - 12 V 54 A battery instead of standard 12 V 45 A battery
085 - Filled in factory with double amount of petrol (used for driving on and of the train for example)
089 - Laminated windshield glass
102 - Rear window heating
161 - seats in cabin with mountings for headrests
172 - tubeless steel-ply tires
181 - chrome hubcabs, headlamp rings and rear view mirrors
185 - seatbelts for all factory mounted seats in cabin and in passenger compartment
206 - Inner rearviewmirror, anti dazzle
253 - Vehicle for North American market with tyres from specific companies
506 - Brake servo and dual-circuit brake control lamp
511 - Padded dashboard, with dashboard lid (not for RHD)
524 - electrical system for the US and Canadian market (sealed beam headlamps, side marker reflectors, etc.)

Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:03 pm

busdaddy wrote: molenari wrote: busdaddy wrote: I thought this was the safety lock, same hole in the hatch but a lock knob on the inside. (...)

I posted some pictures of S705 (the code we discussed here some time ago). It is the Zeiss-Ikon safetely lock. This option was probably only used on early bays. It's for sure that on 1973 models S705 stands for airconditioning.

Here are the pics:
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/609827.jpg
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/609828.jpg
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/609829.jpg

Ahhh.. I recall seeing a pic of one of those many years ago but I've never seen one installed on a bus or camper, certainly not standard equipment on Westfalia's in western Canada or the NW US. I always thought that would be attractive to a panel van owner who parked it loaded in a sketchy part of town overnight or in alleys during the day.

Here is the Zeiss-Ikon lock, and as per your request busdaddy, on a panel. :) Also talked about briefly in the split-bus topic here:

.http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=256762

busdaddy wrote:
BTW the lock I posted has a VW logo followed by Witte velbert and a part # 211 829 211 G.

A local guy here has one of teh big triangel, lock from the inside latches, on his early bay Westy, a 68 I believe, and a euro import if I remember correctly. Karl (RIP) has posted about them on numerous occasions, and generally had a stash of 1 or 2 of them at any given time. Not entirely rare, but hard to find. Early bay westy only.

Locked and unlocked:

Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:14 pm

molenari wrote: 26 OF
181 517 518
21 426 056 095 119
2310 523325 8039746

Buggy27 wrote: Thanks, that was the first place I tried.

It does not tell me what the paint codes are or what that stinkin 21 stands for.

hmmmm.....guess I will have to keep searching, just thought someone on here had a clue.

Hi Joe,
Are you sure there is an 'F' standing on the end of the first line? These plates do excist with an 'E' at this position.

The 21 stands for:
2: 1600 cc engine with M157 (= with exhaust emission control system)
1: 4-speed manual gearbox

the colour code must be read as follows:
523325
5: special paint instruction. Every original Westfalia has a special paint instruction. This is because the inside of a camper needed to be painted in the same colour as the outside of the van. A regular type 23 had a grey/beige cargo compartment.
23: the special paint instruction was applied to a VW type 23 (= VW Kombi, a delivery van with windows)
325: number of the special paint instruction. I don't know for sure the meaning of this code. I have seen it once before. This was on a 1968 microbus. The owner thought it was Titian Red L555. I am curious if this is right. So if you ever have the chance to compare the colour of your bus with a sample of Titian Red L555, let us know the result!

By the way:
It seems the bottom line of the plate starts with '2310' instead of two letters. This is the place where the export destination would have been mentioned. Since this place is empty it means the bus was originally delivered somewhere in West-Germany.

Thanks for all the help.

yes the plate reads 26 OF....reall confuses me aswell...lol.

And the intierior is done in Red paint although I am not 100% sure it is stock.

here is a pic of the interior.

Again thanks

Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:37 pm

molenari wrote: 181 - chrome hubcabs, headlamp rings and rear view mirrors
Looks like i have to chrome my mirrors. They are a dark beige right now. if i want everything like it was off the line i have to do it...

Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:07 am

molenari wrote: hcdmueller wrote: It is definitely A01. I will see if I can get a pic posted of the plate.

Hi the meaning of group code A01 for model year 1979 is as follows:

161: seats in cabin with mountings for headrests
184: 3-point safetybelts for driver- and passengerseat with roll-up automatic and push-button lock
335: special engine to comply to Austrian regulations (1600cc, 50hp)
506: Brake servo
507: Ventilation windows in cabindoors
912: vehicle with out chassis plate (this is the plate that says "Volkswagenwerk AG" plus chassis nr and maximum weights)

Code M335 is one that still makes me wonder what's so special about an Austrian 1600cc engine? M335 only exsists on 1976-1979 models for the Austrian market. Do you have an idea what could be different about the engine in your bus compared to buses from Germany or the Netherlands for example? Providing that your bus still has it's original engine of course.

Thanks for the help. I used to have a Swiss Double Cab also. Both have their original engine and I didn't notice any difference between the two even in a side by side comparison.

I was hoping there was something about reverse lights. I don't have any on the bus. It doesn't have any of the associated wiring or components and the lenses are only yellow and red. The vehicle inspection place didn't believe me this year when I told them it didn't come with any. So I had to dig through my parts and rig up some just to get registered.

Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:48 am

Buggy27 wrote: yes the plate reads 26 OF....reall confuses me aswell...lol.

Do you have a picture of it? :D

Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:40 pm

59eurobug wrote: (...)
anyone care to do mine? TIA

Whats the E on the top line for?

Allright, here it is:

The Volkswagen factory in Hannover (or Emden) wrote: 12 273 842 E

050640 A01 508 697
31 1 7638 UJ 2211 21

And this is what it means:

****** 1st line ******
12 273 842 = chassisnumber
1: modelyear 1971
2: this is an extra number that was
used to distinguish 1970ties and
1960ties chassisnumbers. The '2'
would turn into a '3' as soon as
1 milion vehicles of this model
had been produced. This never
happened with the Transporter
production.

273842: the serialnumber.

E = This code means the bus was made in Emden (probably partially produced in Hannover)

****** 2nd line ******
empty

****** 3rd line ******
050640 = paint- and interiorcode
..: paintcolour lower half - Niagara Blue L53D
06: paintcolour upper half - Pastel White L90D
40: doorpanels and seats - black (material: leatherette)

A01 = a group of M-codes:
020: speedometer and odometer in miles
026: With activated carbon container for absorbing fuel vapour
089: laminated windshield
102: heated rear window
206: anti-dazzle inner rear view mirror
506: Brake servo and dual-circuit brake control lamp
507: Ventilation windows in cabindoors
511: Padded dashboard, with dashboard lid
521: With chrome-trim and sunvizor without mirror
524: Electrical system for US and Canada (sealed beam headlamps, ignition key buzzer, etc.)
525: seatbelts for USA

508 = Ventilationwindow in slidingdoor and in all windows opposite slidingdoor in the passenger compartment (3 windows alltogether)
697 = fitted with continental tyres

****** 4th line ******
31 1 = this code is a date. This date is mostly
a few days later than the actual
production date.

week 31, day 1 (=Monday), 1971

2 augustus, 1971

7638 = code related to production planning

UJ = destinationcode: USA, port: Jacksonville

2211 = 22: VW Microbus, standard version (deluxe was type 24)
1: LHD, slidingdoor right
1: with M147 (= middle bench is 2 seats, so it's a 7-seater)

21 = 2: 1600cc engine with M157 (exhaust emission control)
1: manual 4-speed gearbox

Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:52 pm

wakka420 wrote: molenari wrote: 181 - chrome hubcabs, headlamp rings and rear view mirrors
Looks like i have to chrome my mirrors. They are a dark beige right now. if i want everything like it was off the line i have to do it...

A standard (European) bus would have had painted rear view mirrors. They are made out of steel that can and will rust (on the contrary to the 'chrome' stainles steel ones, I have only seen the repro chrome ones rust)

A painted rear view mirror is pastel white L90D, unless an M-code or special paint instruction would say otherwise.

So I suppose these painted rear view mirrors are rare in the USA or not?

Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:53 pm

molenari wrote: Buggy27 wrote: yes the plate reads 26 OF....reall confuses me aswell...lol.

Do you have a picture of it? :D

Ask and Thou Shalt Recieve...LOL

Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:01 am

Buggy27 wrote: molenari wrote: Buggy27 wrote: yes the plate reads 26 OF....reall confuses me aswell...lol.
Do you have a picture of it? :D
Ask and Thou Shalt Recieve...LOL

Thanks! Strange thing that 'F', now the question is: is it really a mistake or does it have a meaning? I haven't seen it before. The 'E' for Emden is a thing that could appear in this position but not at the moment when your vehicle was produced. The Emden production started in december 1967.

Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:19 am

hcdmueller wrote: molenari wrote: Code M335 is one that still makes me wonder what's so special about an Austrian 1600cc engine? M335 only exsists on 1976-1979 models for the Austrian market. Do you have an idea what could be different about the engine in your bus compared to buses from Germany or the Netherlands for example? Providing that your bus still has it's original engine of course.

Thanks for the help. I used to have a Swiss Double Cab also. Both have their original engine and I didn't notice any difference between the two even in a side by side comparison.

I was hoping there was something about reverse lights. I don't have any on the bus. It doesn't have any of the associated wiring or components and the lenses are only yellow and red. The vehicle inspection place didn't believe me this year when I told them it didn't come with any. So I had to dig through my parts and rig up some just to get registered.

If found some info on M335. I made a new topic on this subject. Just not to polute M-plate-thread with too many big pictures. Here it is:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383370

About those reversing lights:
It is strange your bus has no white lense. Having the white lens red is a typical German Bundeswehr option (S710) (haven't seen it on buses for other armies). The VW parts catalog says it is German Bundespost but this is wrong.

Anyhow: most European buses weren't equiped with reversing light (It was available as M616). Even though since model 1972 all buses had the white lenses on the rear. Buses without this option have no bulb holder for it in the rear light units, no wiring, no fuse and no switch in the gearbox. To have a bus equiped with M616 is actually quite easy but to leave it out would cut expenses in production of course.

Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:00 pm

molenari wrote: busdaddy wrote: BTW the lock I posted has a VW logo followed by Witte velbert and a part # 211 829 211 G.

Thanks for posting that partnr. I looked it up in the august 1970 parts list. And it is listed! Description is as follows:

211 829 211 G "Lock with release, inner - Rear panel lid (Camping Car)"

The model description for this part is:
M517, M518: 231
M500/517: 234

I find this model description a bit strange. I can't imagine M500 has anything to do with this lock since M500 is the code for the full-width partition. (model 231 is an LHD Kombi and model 234 is an RHD kombi). Reading this I would think the lock is part of M517: VW campmobile. which would basically means any Westfalia would have had this lock, but you say you have seen a lot of them without this option.

Anyway, I'll keep an eye out whenever I see a factory original early bay Westy somewhere and search for this option. Or are there people reading this, owning a 1968-1971 factory original westy and can tell if they have this lock or not?

Here's a Euro westy that just turned up with one of these inside latches.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4153497#4153497

Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:42 pm

molenari wrote:
2211 = 22: VW Microbus, standard version (deluxe was type 24)

weird mine has the trim on the window rubber and on the beltline.