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Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:26 pm

Chris Vellat wrote: nodak_85 wrote: using drop spindles will not change any of your front end geometery...

Wrong...they'll affect caster. Unless you lower the rear as much as the front you've changed the beams relationship to earth...add caster shims for more "straight line stability"

ah yes good point forgot about caster

Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:55 am

Pardon me if this is in the wrong place this is my first post so I'm not sure if I'm doing it right. O.K I recently bought some NOS shocks for $2 at an auction and want to use them on my 1961 beetle with 1973 pan project but I think they're too short. they are monrow gas shocks someone wrote "GM" on the package.With the wheels on the ground,stock ride height and no tank engine or glass I would have to pull the suspension down about 2" to fit the bottom shock mount in.(no "pre-load")I'm wondering if the added weight of gas, driver, glass battery etc. would be enough or would the old way of lowering (like you would the rear be the way to get some preload?
Also I have one of those 010 distributers but could'nt find replacment parts.

Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:03 am

4rever wrote: Also I have one of those 010 distributers but could'nt find replacment parts.
Glenn Ring advertises here, he does an excellent job, he can rebuild or sell you parts

Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:14 pm

I have a 67 beetle with drop spindles up front and lowered one click out back.

the nose sits up a touch higher than the rear now, so id like to bring the nose down another inch to even it out front to back.

can I just have a local shop weld in adjusters on my stock beam and then change out the front tires so I don't have rubbing, or should I go with the pre-built shortened beam with the adjusters already in place?

the thing im not completely clean on is what parts you NEED when you shorten the front beam.

CB Performance's 2 inch shortened one is only $300, but I think you also need to buy narrowed torsion leaves ($85); narrowed tie rods ($65) and a narrowed sway bar ($65)

my ball joints themselves look like hell, so I should probably replace those in the process, possibly with the special ones made for lowered cars?

while the narrowed adjustable beam is only $300, when you throw in the rest of the needed parts it's really closer to $600 - unless im missing something.

thanks.

Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:20 pm

600 is about what I priced at Franklin's a few years back. Getting all of your existing stuff worked over will cut that back.

You could just do adjusters, and then turn them down to the height you want. You won't need to get tires or narrowing unless you rub. Do you have a picture of where you are at now? You would be wise to have adjusters and narrowing done at the same time.

Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:47 pm

this is where im at right now, running 165R15's up front

as is I rub something up front when im in full lock with the steering and going backwards. I *think* it's part of the swaybar brackets that im hitting on the inside of the front right tire, but again only when at full lock and while backing up. ive since learned not to turn at full lock when I can avoid it.

thanks for confirming what I thought - you either buy shortened ancillary products or you cut/shorten/weld your own (or pay someone local to do it for you)

so to buy it all outright IS probably close to $600.

but, you think I could just get someone to weld in adjusters on my stock beam and be done with it, without rubbing up front? (im fine with changing the front tires if I have to, these are pretty old and cracked)

Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:31 am

airkooledchris wrote: can I just have a local shop weld in adjusters on my stock beam and then change out the front tires so I don't have rubbing, or should I go with the pre-built shortened beam with the adjusters already in place?

.

if you are only looking to drop an inch or so and figure on getting smaller tires, try the tires first, it may get you what you want... then you can get adjustible beam later to close the fender gap you'll hate... :lol:

Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:28 am

bugninva wrote: airkooledchris wrote: can I just have a local shop weld in adjusters on my stock beam and then change out the front tires so I don't have rubbing, or should I go with the pre-built shortened beam with the adjusters already in place?

.

if you are only looking to drop an inch or so and figure on getting smaller tires, try the tires first, it may get you what you want... then you can get adjustible beam later to close the fender gap you'll hate... :lol:

Well, that's it isn't it?

If all I do is put on smaller tires it will sit the front down a bit, but it will increase the gap to the fender and make it look even more out of sync with the rear.

How about this, I want to match the wheel gap in the back, im not as interested in actually making the car level front to back - so long as the amount of wheel gap looks the same (though the two will go basically hand in hand)

Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:50 am

If you are rubbing right now, then narrowing won't help you. You will need to shorten the profile of the tires, and get the adjusters. Narrowing is subjective. Some only do it to fit tires and some do it for the look. 165/80s will pretty much rub no matter what. Have you seen the suspension pictures thread for ideas?

Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:40 am

5.5" narrowed beam, piecut front end, drop spindles, 2" tranny raise,3 splines

Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:51 am

Sigurd wrote: You will need to shorten the profile of the tires, and get the adjusters. Have you seen the suspension pictures thread for ideas?

yes.

and I think I might be able to get away with just putting on adjusters and switching the tires, without having to actually narrow the beam. (which means no narrowing of all the rest of the stuff, a $$ saving thought.)

I just don't want to throw on adjusters and switch the tires only to find out it rubs like crazy because I didn't narrow it at the same time.

but, im a gambling man, and if its worked for others ill give it a shot. it can't be too pricey to pay someone to install adjusters....

Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:50 am

OK, so I finally read this entire thread, and I am ready to lower the front of my 68, but the rear is fuzzy. I have a swing axle in the rear, but only see people talking about IRS. How much different is swing axle from independent suspension when I go to lower it? Is there any things I need to make sure I do, like certain things I need to keep measurements of before I remove anything?

Basically I don't want to start taking things apart until I know I can put it all back together again. :lol:

I also don't like the tilt of the tire inwards, is there a way to eliminate that? Or is that solely dependent on which splines you turn which way?

I am getting a new beam for the front. Took the gas tank out and saw my beam is bent. I wanted to lower it anyway, so it makes it easier to convince the wife to spend the money to fix it! Hahahaha. Already got the spindles and ball joints.

I am changing to urethane bushings, do I still need to get those micarta bushings that go behind the old bearings? or do the urethane bushings replace those too? As far as I know They replace everything, bearings and bushings. But I don't want to need it and not have it. Then have my car sitting on jacks for another week waiting for parts to arrive.

Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:59 am

I hope these pics will work. The front looks lower because there are bags of cement in the front right now.

Yes I know, very unsafe. Thats what I told her so I could buy the new adjustable beam for a little more than just a new stock one. So I can drop the front 4+ inches now, just need to figure out the back now.

Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:15 am

68'Slug Bug wrote: OK, so I finally read this entire thread, and I am ready to lower the front of my 68, but the rear is fuzzy. I have a swing axle in the rear, but only see people talking about IRS. How much different is swing axle from independent suspension when I go to lower it? Is there any things I need to make sure I do, like certain things I need to keep measurements of before I remove anything?

Basically I don't want to start taking things apart until I know I can put it all back together again. :lol:

I also don't like the tilt of the tire inwards, is there a way to eliminate that? Or is that solely dependent on which splines you turn which way?

I am getting a new beam for the front. Took the gas tank out and saw my beam is bent. I wanted to lower it anyway, so it makes it easier to convince the wife to spend the money to fix it! Hahahaha. Already got the spindles and ball joints.

I am changing to urethane bushings, do I still need to get those micarta bushings that go behind the old bearings? or do the urethane bushings replace those too? As far as I know They replace everything, bearings and bushings. But I don't want to need it and not have it. Then have my car sitting on jacks for another week waiting for parts to arrive.

You want to get yourself a protractor/angle finder and after you have the car on jackstands, take the 4 bolts off the cover plate for the spring plate then use a pry bar and pop the spring plate off the frame/stop and the spring plate will drop a little
Then use your protractor and check the angle of the spring plate. You can also mark the spring plate, torsion bar and frame in a straight line so you have a reference point. Disconnect the axle and pull it out of the way. Then pull the spring plate off the torsion bar trying to keep the torsion bar still connected on the inside of the torsion housing and turn the spring plate up 1 or 2 notches slide it back on and hook everything back up. Check the angle and then you will see how many degrees you lowered it. Then do the other side and make sure its the same amount of degrees.

The tires tilt inward at the top because the axle only has one pivot point. no way to fix that other than an IRS conversion.

Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:26 am

cage66 wrote: 68'Slug Bug wrote: OK, so I finally read this entire thread, and I am ready to lower the front of my 68, but the rear is fuzzy. I have a swing axle in the rear, but only see people talking about IRS. How much different is swing axle from independent suspension when I go to lower it? Is there any things I need to make sure I do, like certain things I need to keep measurements of before I remove anything?

Basically I don't want to start taking things apart until I know I can put it all back together again. :lol:

I also don't like the tilt of the tire inwards, is there a way to eliminate that? Or is that solely dependent on which splines you turn which way?

I am getting a new beam for the front. Took the gas tank out and saw my beam is bent. I wanted to lower it anyway, so it makes it easier to convince the wife to spend the money to fix it! Hahahaha. Already got the spindles and ball joints.

I am changing to urethane bushings, do I still need to get those micarta bushings that go behind the old bearings? or do the urethane bushings replace those too? As far as I know They replace everything, bearings and bushings. But I don't want to need it and not have it. Then have my car sitting on jacks for another week waiting for parts to arrive.

You want to get yourself a protractor/angle finder and after you have the car on jackstands, take the 4 bolts off the cover plate for the spring plate then use a pry bar and pop the spring plate off the frame/stop and the spring plate will drop a little
Then use your protractor and check the angle of the spring plate. You can also mark the spring plate, torsion bar and frame in a straight line so you have a reference point. Disconnect the axle and pull it out of the way. Then pull the spring plate off the torsion bar trying to keep the torsion bar still connected on the inside of the torsion housing and turn the spring plate up 1 or 2 notches slide it back on and hook everything back up. Check the angle and then you will see how many degrees you lowered it. Then do the other side and make sure its the same amount of degrees.

The tires tilt inward at the top because the axle only has one pivot point. no way to fix that other than an IRS conversion.

Thanks, thats what I was afraid of about the tires. I guess the only fix is raising the tranny or switching to IRS. I will have to think about that some more before I do anything. Maybe just lower it an inch or two won't put to much of an inward angle on the tires. I have wider tires, so it would be a little harder to notice than skinny tires.

Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:09 am

The main thing that kills tires is the tow in rather than the camber.
Camber is tilting in at the tops and tow is pointing in or out toward each other.
The spring plates are slotted for adjustment of tow so after you lower it just rest the spring plaes or maybe shock mount on jack stands so the car is at ride height with a jack somewhere under (just in case) and measure the distance between the rear tires in the front and in the rear and try to get them exact.
At 2 notches you can pretty much just slide them all the way back and be damn close.

Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:49 am

Gotcha, I had a feeling I was going to have to check that. I was going to make a jig to mount to the fender so I could just line it up. Thanks for all the help! I can't wait til I get all the parts so I can get started. At least now I can dig into lowering the rear while I wait for parts for the front. :)

This car is a headache from hell, but the more time I spend with it, the more it doesn't matter. VWs are addictive. I think I am going to get a squreback next, or maybe a bus. Decisions, decisions. Hahahahahahaha

Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:21 am

I need a sanity check here before I start my final height adjustments. I've been experimenting with the rear end height on my '68 vert by re-indexing the spring plates. All the rear end suspension, with exception of wheels and tires and a set of gas shocks, is stock. So to get the exact rake I'm looking for, I've determined that I need to RAISE the rear about .5" or roughly 1.65 CM from where it is right now.

Based on this table, http://aircooledvw1300.blogspot.com/2008/07/lowering-rear-torsion-bars-chart.html to achieve this, I think I would do the opposite of what's listed. Therefore I need to go -3 on the inner splines and +3 on the outer splines. Does this sound correct?

Also, -3 would be three splines COUNTERCLOCKWISE and +3 would be three splines CLOCKWISE, right? Is it the same on both sides?

Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:35 pm

On the driver's side, yes. For the passenger's side, switch the direction of rotation.

Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:49 pm

I have a stock 66 bug, i want to lower. if i lower it with 2.5 lowered dropped spindles. will i have to do any modification. new tires due to rubbing or anything?