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Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:17 pm

Blinker wrote: what is it?? Is a real heb or did someone cut up a split to make this? It would make a cool rat.

What do you mean "would" make a cool rat?? The thing is a rat.

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:27 pm

banana split wrote: Blinker wrote: what is it?? Is a real heb or did someone cut up a split to make this? It would make a cool rat.

What do you mean "would" make a cool rat?? The thing is a rat.

narrowed beam, alloys, big turbo motor,slam it, drive it...

for the work that has been done it should be a drivers car not a museum piece obviously its not. Rat rod/custom sure. or you could paint it yellow and call it a banana.

Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:44 pm

oval_addict wrote: Quote: Imagine the deal it was when it was originally for sale for $1,500.

wow :shock: i had no idea it went for so low originally!

Yeah, that car was for sale in NJ for $1,500 about 2 years ago. Has the original oval rear mirror on it. I almost bought it for a few of the parts. But I was afraid it would fall apart on the ride home.

Pretty interesting car, though.

Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:18 pm

I also thought of buying it but decided against it. I never really was convinced that it was a "coachbuilt" car. I thought it was just something that was built in someones backyard. I would roll the hebmuller coupe.

Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:37 pm

EverettB wrote: oval_addict wrote:
It's an interesting looking car and I think the story is cool but damn, those rims have got to go. In a perfect world, anyone running chromies would be shot.

Those are 356 Wheels...if you EVER owned one...you would know...
I understand your post however

Mark

Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:38 pm

merz356 wrote: EverettB wrote: oval_addict wrote:
It's an interesting looking car and I think the story is cool but damn, those rims have got to go. In a perfect world, anyone running chromies would be shot.

Those are 356 Wheels...if you EVER owned one...you would know...
I understand your post however
Yeah, I had a feeling... I hate those too.

Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:00 pm

EverettB wrote: merz356 wrote: EverettB wrote: oval_addict wrote:
It's an interesting looking car and I think the story is cool but damn, those rims have got to go. In a perfect world, anyone running chromies would be shot.

Those are 356 Wheels...if you EVER owned one...you would know...
I understand your post however
Yeah, I had a feeling... I hate those too.

Wow... a 'Hater' humm...well everyone has there opinion..
I can completely understand that.
I hate type 3's but hey...once again,everyone has there 'thing'

Mark

Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:03 pm

merz356 wrote: EverettB wrote: merz356 wrote: EverettB wrote: oval_addict wrote:
It's an interesting looking car and I think the story is cool but damn, those rims have got to go. In a perfect world, anyone running chromies would be shot.

Those are 356 Wheels...if you EVER owned one...you would know...
I understand your post however
Yeah, I had a feeling... I hate those too.

Wow... a 'Hater' humm...well everyone has there opinion..
I can completely understand that.
I hate type 3's but hey...once again,everyone has there 'thing'
To be clear, I don't hate 356s, just the wheels. Although they do look fine on 356s. Volkswagens look best with their correct stock wheels, in my opinion.

Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:16 pm

EverettB wrote: merz356 wrote: EverettB wrote: merz356 wrote: EverettB wrote: oval_addict wrote:
It's an interesting looking car and I think the story is cool but damn, those rims have got to go. In a perfect world, anyone running chromies would be shot.

Those are 356 Wheels...if you EVER owned one...you would know...
I understand your post however
Yeah, I had a feeling... I hate those too.

Wow... a 'Hater' humm...well everyone has there opinion..
I can completely understand that.
I hate type 3's but hey...once again,everyone has there 'thing'
To be clear, I don't hate 356s, just the wheels. Although they do look fine on 356s. Volkswagens look best with their correct stock wheels, in my opinion.

LOL!
Yes for SURE! Stock or throw it back...
But Hey...Thats just me....I am sure I will here some slack...but ...Once again...Every MAN...has his OR HER ...opinion .. Fa Sure

Sorry man..wasn't trying to Dis

Mark

Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:10 pm

The roadster at Carlson's is an OG Karmann Kabrio, I got the confirmation of that from Wolfburg Museum, Shipped I think to New York, in '55 (will have to find info in the boxes, moved my office again) Birth Certificate people said it definitely was an OG Vert, not a Karmann special 2 seater. So the work was done here in the US, but the NJ owner looked around for info on who did it and came up with nothing, I wasn't in a position to buy it so Carlson got it. (I was broke then) I would have liked it, but at the present $$ I can't afford it either.. As a note I understand that there are more Hebs around than there are similar date Karmann verts, but the hebs are more expensive - probabnly because there are more verts over time than hebs.

The info on the coup is that the guy who built it started with a split with a damaged roof, and so did the work himself for the joy of it.

Eric

Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:04 am

Figured I'd chime in...what the heck...

I have the original steel wheels with the hubcaps and trim rings for the car, but the tires were shot so I put on the 356 wheels so I could roll it around the shop. Trust me...they wont be staying.

I sent off to Wolfsburg with the vin number and got the same info, it started out as a Karmann Kabriolet that was shipped to the East Coast (Boston I think), so the modifications were done here. I did receive an email from Bill Collins recently that identified it as being built by a fellow named Frank Russo in Mass. The info he gave me seems to jive with the car, so I think it's history is now becoming clearer. Apparantly Russo bought a low mileage 55 Kabriolet that had been flipped up on it's roof and then did the metalwork to turn it into the roadster body. The semaphore holes in the rear quarters are there but were covered over (bummer). Its amazingly complete though...just rough.

Its certainly saveable though. Ive got a metal guy lined up to do the welding and get it back where it needs to be. Completed the "Russo Roadster" would be a pretty sweet ride. I stare at it every day and imagine it completed...the lines are awesome.

Someday...it will be finished...someday. [-o<

Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:40 am

Found the info on the roadster:

Info dated Feb 20 2004 from Frau Neefe ref Karmann Convertible:

"The car with chassis number 1 - o 809 134 ist a model 151 = VW Convertible, 4 seater, produced on 12 February 1955 by Karmann in Osnabruck and delivered on 15 February 1955 to Craig-Stanton, New York.

Your 2 seater is a private reproduction and not a Hebmueller model or a Hebmueller prototype".

The NJ owner told me that it came originally from an estate in Philadelphia area, where it had spent a very long tome outside by a barn. With the estate info, if available , plus the info from Collins I assume that a rather complete history could be put together.

Eric

Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:15 am

I have the same info from VW on the car but I did not mention the "Hebmuller" tie-in, I just sent off for the "birth certificate".

I had heard the PA backyard story as well.

Also there seems to be some question as to the price of the car when I bought it. I wish it was $1500, but it most certainly was not. Perhaps it changed hands at that price prior to my buying it. I bought it from a fellow named Richie who ran somewhate of a VW parts house / wrecking yard for $4500. It then cost me $1200 to have it shipped to California. Since I have bought another convertible body for donor sheet metal, etc...so Ive got a good little bit invested.

Im also pretty excited that the history of the car is now becoming clearer. I knew it was a privately built car pretty early on when I received the letter from Volkswagen. But now thanks to Bill Collins and his memories from the 70's of the gaps can all be filled in.

Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:49 am

I thought a guy in New Jersey or Pennsylvania had found this car in the back of a gas station or an auto shop. It was for sale for around $1500.00. I'm in Virginia so I was close enough to drive and see it and really thought about buying it. At that time, I was searching for an early vert. Maybe Kevin or Everett might know, but I thought that the owner had started up a Post here on The Samba in the Pre '57 forum (back before it was split up) . The owner was asking about the car and if it was actually a Heb.

Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:06 pm

Randy,

I actually only said that the car looked like someone wanted a Heb, and that someone had put out the idea that ti might have been a Heb prototype, but that I knew it wasn't a Heb at all. Richie had said that he had seen a photo of something like this in a history of Karmann, but he never could find the photo for me, so I was covering all the bets I could think of. I had sent him photos of all the 2 seaters that I knew of, the Maier, the Tolson, the Moto Torino, the three Heb prototypes, the Radclyffe, etc and why his didn't seem to be any of these.

VW was really interested in making sure that no one thought it was a Heb or a prototype.

When I talked to Richie he said the offer he had was $3000.00 and did I want to top it. As I said I couldn't at that time. There must have been another interested party besides the 2 of us.

As you say it has great lines, and will make a great car when redone.

Eric

Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:18 pm

erioco wrote: I had sent him photos of all the 2 seaters that I knew of, the Maier, the Tolson, the Moto Torino, the three Heb prototypes, the Radclyffe, etc and why his didn't seem to be any of these.

if anyone cares, this is a moto torino:

Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:27 pm

When I first seen this car I thought it was a Moto Torino. If I remember correctly, these are rarer than Hebs. I'll have to go back and read up on them.

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:35 pm

...but after all..this would look cool. n´est pas?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:39 pm

Woe Hitsi!!! 8)

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:04 pm

i saw this car up close quite a few times at richie's place. i had posted about it on kabriolett.com. the closest we came to a match was the torino. i tried to get the rear view mirror out of it before richie sent it to randy but he wouldn't let it go. i saw it again at the 2004 classic and was surprised it was able to roll. whoever buys it has his work cut out for him.