TheSamba.com :: View topic - everthing that is wrong with my van,ideas?

Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:59 pm

Hi folks here it is a list to diagnose!

1: It will not start, but there seems to be juice coming from the battery as the radio works and so do the wipers? I guess alternator, any other ideas?

2: When it did start, it needed to have the gas pedal pumped to start?

3: It is rusting a little bit and as it is -20 here, I cannot touch it up with paint so, I was wondering if anyone new of something I could put over the rust that would protect a bit in this inclimate weather.

We are talking about a 85 4sp. gasser westy, if that helps diagnose the problems, any ideas would be appreciated.

Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:27 pm

Hey there, I have felt your pain. My 85 was sitting in front of my house not starting (well not running for more than 15 sec.) for about two weeks while I was diagnosing the problem, replacing this and that. But since you mention pumping the pedal alot... Randy in Maine kept prying me about the fuel pressure, there simply was not enough to get the whole fuel injection system working. I discovered that the two little fuel relays were the culprit. I am no expert but FI would be were I would start if I were you. As far as alternator, you should be able to get the van to start on the battery itself, but it will run the battery down so watch it. I am no expert just had personal experience, but some here are amateur experts so keep asking and searching. Good luck, its worth it

Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:31 pm

Yeah, just because your wipers work does not mean that the battery is strong enough to turn the starter quickly enough. If you have to charge it, jump it, or use a known good.
Fuel injection systems are not made to have the pedal pushed(but they mention it helps in this other thread). On some carbuerated models you would do this to squirt a little fuel into it to help it start via the accelerator pump. Fuel pressure and fuel flow seem like a good place to start after you line out the battery. You don't say if it restarted hot ok. If it did then it is probaly in your cold start system. Maybe the coolant temp sensor which operates the cold start injector or the injector itself. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=147729

Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:31 am

joe
Try rust mort for the rust, the surface must be dry to install it, I don't believe the temp will effect it, because it chemically reacts with the oxidation process.
Also as Walrus indicated, stop pumping the pedal, fuel injection system, if running properly will squirt the fuel by it's self, it doesn't have a carburator :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:24 am

I posted the same thing about my 82. Dont foget about the spark plugs.

Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:32 am

Might try taking the battery inside and fully charging it up and then reinstalling it. When it is colder than snot outside, they don't put out near the voltage as they do when it is nice out.

Good solid and clean connections at the battery, starter, doublerelay and the fuel pump are required. To get the FI to work you need to be putting out at least 10 volts and be able to generate about 28 psi at the fuel rail.

Do the bentley test on the cold start system (I don't know what they have on this model). On a L tronic it is the thermotime switch and the "5th injector" or cold start valve that need to work right. Sometimes in cold weather, the aux air regualtor will fail to close the little door like it is supposed to, so don't forget to look there.

Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:58 pm

Randy in Maine wrote: Sometimes in cold weather, the aux air regualtor will fail to close the little door like it is supposed to, so don't forget to look there.
Dont you mean open?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:39 am

Hi guys thanks for the excellent tips! I do have one last question, in regards to the FI. I don't know why it requires me to put my foot on the gas pedal to start it,(other than it is not working right) Do you think the problem of not starting and the prior history of gas pedal pumping are related, or do you think it is a series of unfortunate events?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:49 am

It would not hurt it. All you are doing is manually changing the air fuel ratio by playing with the pedal and luckily getting it to hit probaly from flooding. The FI s supposed to control the ratio. Checking that flapper valve like someone suggested is a good idea as well.

Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:02 pm

It didn't start all week, it didn't start last night but this morning,christmas morning it fired right up! I still have this problem that it doesn't seem to be getting enough gas, I am going to the mechanic as soon as I can get in, but before I do does anybody have any last ides what would be causing these symptoms: needs gas to be pumped, will not go over 50km and will not climb hills worth a lick? any last ideas.

Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:22 pm

What is your fuel pressure in the fuel rail? Did you ever tell us?

Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:40 pm

Hi Randy, I am not sure what the fuel pressure is in the rails, how would I find that out?

Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:32 pm

Somewhere on the fuel rail is a test port that allows you to hook up a fuel pressure test gauge to see what kind of pressure the fuel pump is putting out and what pressure the fuel pressure regulator is holding in the system. On my bus, it is a bolt with a 7mm head that comes out so that I can hook up the gauge. It won't start unless it is about 26 psi and will feel like it is running out of gas when it gets below that number.

You can either buy one for about $50 or you can make one something like this at Home Depot using a water pressure test gauge for $8 and a barbed air compressor fitting that fits your FI fuel line (like 7mm?). Put about a 3 foot long hose on it and you can do the pump volume test by unscrewing the gauge to see if it can pump out about 1 liter of gas in 30 seconds. When warm the pressure should be about 28 psi (at idle) and when you remove the regulator vacuum line from the loop, it should go to about 35 psi, rehook up the vacuum line and rev it up to about 3000 RPMs and it should maintain about 28 psi.

Low or fluctuating pressure can be a sign that your pump or regulator are dying, or the filter/fuel line/tank are plugged up (usually with rust).

Almost no pressure can mean that your pump is not getting any current from either bad connections at the battery and the starter, the double relay, the pump and you need to figure that out with your Bentley and a volt ohm meter, before you haul it off to someone who will charge you big money.

Make sure your temp sensors are in range (test them) , that you have no vacuum leaks in the sytem and your electrical connections (inclduing the grounds) are great. VW have been towed for thousands of unneccessary miles due to all of those thing.

Make sure you are getting spark at the plugs (good ignition system and put your dwell meter on the points if you have them to check) and that the injecots are firing (put your 12 volt test light in the injector wiring harnes and have someone try to start it up and the test light wshould flash). Keep in mind that you need a full charge on the battery and about 10 volts to get any of the system to fire.

I have this tatooed on my butt (after spending $500 at a shop for a new computer and other crap I did not need) .... REPLACE NO PART OF THE FI SYSTEM UNTIL IT IS PROVEN TO BE BAD.

Let us know what happens.

Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:56 pm

Will do, thanks Randy for that great bit of info! I will keep you guys informed, thanks again!