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Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:28 am

i am in need of new cv's on the passanger side of my 86 vanagon through using the search ive read that i realy want to be using Lobro joints. I was going to buy the half shafts from bus depot but when i asked them about the half shafts they said they have empi cv's on them. Are these Empi cv's any good? should i just buy 2 lobro cv's and rebuild my axles myself? if i go this route is there anything i should check on my original half shaft to be sure its still usuable?
Thanks

Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:49 am

The actual half shaft itself is indestructable. With new Lobro joints you should be good to go for another 100K miles. You'll also have the peace of mind knowing you did all the work. Wear surgical gloves or be prepared for some hard hand scrubbin'

Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:52 am

hey thanks for the reply is it very dificult to do the actuall install of the cv's on the ends of the shaft if i go with the lobro's?

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:13 pm

Nope, not at all. You might need a torch to get the old CVs off the shaft, and a hammer and vice is nice to do some serious pounding, but it's not too bad. I ended up getting a section of steel pipe that was longer than my shaft to pound the old junkers off there.

Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:26 pm

lilweasel wrote: Nope, not at all. You might need a torch to get the old CVs off the shaft, and a hammer and vice is nice to do some serious pounding, but it's not too bad. I ended up getting a section of steel pipe that was longer than my shaft to pound the old junkers off there.

the "gorrilla method".

Try a Sears 6 1/2" gear puller and a pair of circlip pliers. Vise helps. couple of extra tubes of CV joint grease helps also. Buy one of these http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=5796

Been here? Go over to the VW technical articles and transxle stuff.

http://type2.com/bartnik/

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:14 pm

Quote: the "gorrilla method".

Yup, I just get so much more satisfaction out of it that way.

I actually tried the gear puller method but I only have a 2 arm puller and it kept slipping off or leaning to the side.

Besides, after a few beers it's more fun to use brute force.

Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:54 pm

lilweasel wrote: Quote: the "gorrilla method".

Yup, I just get so much more satisfaction out of it that way.

I actually tried the gear puller method but I only have a 2 arm puller and it kept slipping off or leaning to the side.

Besides, after a few beers it's more fun to use brute force.

That kind of looks like me in the morning before my second cup of coffee.

Also I find that a plastic table cloth is nice to have when doing this CV joint repacking (especially if you have to do it at on a picnic table at the rest area just south of flagstaff on a Sunday morning. :shock: ).

Also clean out the old CV joint bolts with "gumout" and use the "triple square" or "allen key" if that is what your bolts require. Don't lose the washers for the bolts. When you put the new ones in, no locktight, torque them to spec and re-check the torque after about 100 miles.

Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:30 pm

Also remember to tag or mark the shafts so as not to exchange the left for right and vise-versa. I always use a big zip tie on the left side as my indicator. Since it doesn't matter which end of the left or right sides are inboard/outboard as long as they stay on their respective sides, this is a sufficient indicator that won't get washed off in the solvent tank. You do this because the half shafts are torsional and have a memory. You do not want to 'twist' them the opposite way as they have been twisting their whole life. If you do, and drive them hard you will find they are not as 'indestructible' as mentioned, but will break in a loud and messy way.
Since they are tempered you will want to be very careful when applying heat to the CV inner race if you choose this method of removal. You certainly don't want to affect their temper. And NEVER apply heat to a CV you will be reusing. I prefer to use a press. If you don't have one, any automotive machine shop will, and can drop the CV's off the shafts for a couple of bucks. The cleaner your parts are, the kinder they usually will be on the price. It is always best to buy the 'kit' rather than the bare CV. This is because the kit not only has a new boot which is a MUST for new CV installation, but a new set of bolts. Lastly always make certain the mating surfaces - flange to CV - are clean, dry and without tool marks, rust specs, etc.. This together with the new unfatigued bolts will insure you get an accurate torque value during installation and they won't come loose or require re-torqueing.

Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:28 pm

i ordered the cv kits from bus depot. i bought a 8mm tripple square tool and the old axle shaft droped right out no problems, i also ordered one of the tools for the castle nut on the axle stub? as i was havin a hard time finding a 46mm socket.
thanks for all the help

Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:08 pm

Phil G wrote: Also remember to tag or mark the shafts so as not to exchange the left for right and vise-versa. You do this because the half shafts are torsional and have a memory. You do not want to 'twist' them the opposite way as they have been twisting their whole life. If you do, and drive them hard you will find they are not as 'indestructible' as mentioned, but will break in a loud and messy way.

Although that is probably pretty good advice, I don't do that. I flip them without any problems so that I get a "new wear surface" each time. First repack inboard for outboard. Second repack right for left, but I only have 67 HP and don't drive it hard.

More important is to re-pack them every 30K miles or whenever you have a torn boot. If you keep them will lubricated they will last for ever.

I am not sure why you need the 46mm axle tool unless you are doing wheel bearings also.

Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:49 pm

i got the axle nut tool beacuse it looked to me like it would be alot easier to take the castle nut off pull that stub axle out, assemble it to the axle shaft/cv and slide the whole assembly back in rather then trying to line the 6 tripple square bolts back up to the stub axle in that little "well" on the tire side. any thoughts?
apreciate the warning on keeping track of the direction the axle turns in. On mine it realy wasnt an issue as im only doing one side at the moment and i can easily tell wich side was on the tranny and wich was the tire side by the condition of the overall assembly the grease on the tire side was discolored and kinda crumbly. Marking its easy to do an worth the effort of a couple wraps of tape tho so ill go ahead an mark it
Thanks

Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:39 pm

Randy in Maine wrote:
Also I find that a plastic table cloth is nice to have when doing this CV joint repacking (especially if you have to do it at on a picnic table at the rest area just south of flagstaff on a Sunday morning. :shock: ).

100 miles south huh? i did mine 50 miles north of Flagstaff. I somehow missed the retorque after 100 miles.

Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:49 pm

Randy's got a point there. I used to do the same in the early days on IRS bugs and busses. Never had a problem. Big stroker VW's with big tires, 911s, heavy off-road use and racing would probably be a fair place to draw the line. Old race habits die hard in my case, and everything gets the overkill treatment. Keeps me interested.
An observation:
Standard VW CV's come with a supply of Petro-based Moly grease, a foul smelly mess that starts out that way and just gets worse as much the result of age as from mileage. And there’s nothing special about the joints themselves either. So in the early days we'd swim in the stuff every 30-40k mi, spending a few hours messing with the CV's, trying to get the most life out of them. Now, all of our time is worth something if for no other reason than it’s a finite resource. And doing something 3 to 6 times instead of once has never really exited me.
The new Porsche 930 CV's I've seen have a red synthetic lubricant, and as I recall are serviced on the Porsche every 80-90k - but many people never really do this. 930 CV's have also come down quite a bit in price and I think they represent a pretty good value in that they're tougher than the VW CV’s and can be loaded at greater angles. They're also designed with higher horsepower in mind, the boots are better, and of course these joints will fit the Vanagon. They are a better quality part with better quality lubrication. I use a set on the receiving end of a 300hp Turbo Scat motor in my 58' The car's very light though, so I probably won't need to mess with them again in my lifetime.

I'll use these in my 87' Vanagon if the originals ever puke. If a Vanagon could get a solid 300,000 miles/ 30 years out of a set of these joints without service, or a half million miles with only one service and a set of boots, How much more are they worth than the Original CV’s? Double the price? Triple?
I’ve seen many MBs, Porsches, and BMW's with 200,000+ miles between 10 and 25 years old that have original untouched CV's in perfect condition. I have a 20 year old BMW 5 series in fact that has 271,000 miles on it and the CV's / boots are just fine - The car will undoubtedly die a horrible death long before it's CV's pack it in.
I think good design, engineering, materials, and processes are so much more interesting to understand and apply than just changing parts. So improving things when I have to renew them is interesting, and is rewarding in that I may never have to do it again on a particular car. And it’s not like we’ll ever run out of things to work on . . :D

Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:10 pm

does anyone have an exploded diagram of a cv/axle? or a link to one
sorry i know i should be using my bently but unfortunatly mine hasnt arived yet and i want to double check that ive installed my new cv's correctly before i instal the axle
thanks

Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:04 pm

Well they really only fit one way and keep in mind that they need to flex at the end mabe about 30* from straight.

If it doesn't, that means that the inner cage needs to be "flipped over" and re-loaded with the ball bearings.

Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:52 pm

thanks randy, got it all together and in