TheSamba.com :: View topic - Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing

Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:57 pm

dumpsterboy wrote: from what I've read should this type have the sleeve instaled?
mine did not... is this why it failed??

Yes... it should have the sleeve around the input shaft. It helps guide the TOB.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 pm

Glenn wrote: dumpsterboy wrote: from what I've read should this type have the sleeve instaled?
mine did not... is this why it failed??

Yes... it should have the sleeve around the input shaft. It helps guide the TOB.

so what to do glenn????

change the whole tranny?????or can i just change the pressure plate/flywheel??

or am i looking for another motor? :cry:

Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:15 pm

when you look at your trans, where the output shaft comes out, do you see any studs, or holes for studs that would let you mount a sleeve? I think you could tap some holes for studs to mount a sleeve, but i just went ahead & put in an "early" heavy duty release arm "kit", early throwout bearing, & put the ring back on my pressure plate.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:23 pm

if you notice the teeth on the pressure plate have been worn significantly. you need the kit that i purchased or at a minimum to update to early pressure plate with centering ring on pressure plate to match up with the early style throw out you have. this is the same issue i had last week with my bug and it works fine now. if you look at page one of this thread and look at the first and second pictures that is what your setup will need to look like. now if you want you can go and buy from a specific vw dealer or aircooled shop or you can go easier and roll down to the closest napa or schucks to pick up the full kit. schucks part number nu1084 its not as confusing as it looks but whomever installed that motor last did not use the right stuff and its possible you clutch isnt even that old. check it out and let us know

ps. napa was roughly $40 more than schucks

Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:14 pm

thanks guys ....

my concern is that the bolt holes(6) wer different patterns for each style

will now tomorrow as I am going to take your advice and get the early

and yes the clutch and surfaces still look great :?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:00 am

scout164 wrote: ok, i got it!! :lol: I needed to exagerate the bowden tube a little more to take out some more play. It could use more but i have forward motion and its going into gear. I needed alot more adjustment but i was figuring because of a new clutch it wouldnt have been that far. So much for thinking inside the box!! Anyways thanks for all you help guys!!

If your out of wingnut / cable threads to adjust your clutch, and the only way to get it where it needs to be is by exagerating the bowden tube, - then you'll have to start thinking about getting a shorter clutch cable. You have no adjustment room for when the disc and clutch start to wear. Ideally, the wingnut should land somewhere around the middle of of the cable threads. When I swapped out a 3 arm clutch in my old Fastback, for one of the more common multi finger ones, the adjustment was so shortened that I had to use large washers under the wingnut for awhile until I found a shorter cable.

Peace, Greg

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:56 am

i think i may be having a similar problem scout164 was having, similar set up swing axle (long axles) early throw out, early pressure plate w/ the centering ring, the motor's a 1600dp, the clutch just won't engage. the clutch pedal feels like it should, but with it pushed in and in gear the car won't budge, when the motors running in nuetral and i try and put it in gear it grinds, i had everything together clutch wouldn't engage, pulled the motor out and noticed that one of the clips that hold the throw out on had a little grind mark in it where the pressure plate had touched it, so, i had another throw out laying around that i put on, put everything back together, same thing, there's hardly any slack in the cable, is there a different clutch for early and late model pressure plates? any ideas, i'm ready to pull the motor but want a plan first, thanks

Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:27 pm

without getting too winded...i fixed the miss matched clutch in mine and the new kep stage one with early t/o was used as a replacement but the new set up required me to crank the adjustment all the way down...ive pondered many possibilities last night instead of sleeping and well...could someone demystifie the mojo behind the bowden tube?...why is it, and such; and how does one "create" the required slack and why would that sudenly be nesessary?...thanx for your patience with the handicaped...

Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:21 am

excellent post, thank you.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:14 pm

To make a short story long I have a 1970 tranny with the correct german throw out bearing and correct pressure plate and clutch disc. This is what happens after this last inst, I used all original parts for the clutch all german and everything was running smooth--then I could hear what sounded Like the clutch having a hard rubbling noise and then I was loosing clutch play. two times before this my shift fork Litterally broke at the T/O/ Bearing guide on the t/o shaft--replaced shaft and T/o bearing adjusted Bowden tube by adding 4 more washers. then everything seemed finr until three weeks later and Im leaving to drop kids at school--POP clutch cable goes limp while shifting in reverse and all the way to the floor. I drop the motor and the only noticeable diff. is the presure plate is bent slightly in on one side. so to play it safe I replace shift fork T/O Bearing Pressure Plate and Clutch disk with all New German parts from Tony and The great crew at wolfsburg west again. Now here we go again its up on Jacks for the 3rd time.

Im running a lightened flywheel but would this be that much material taken off the flywheel to make that much Diff? I am considering going heavy duty on all parts, but yet again Its all OG. and should be fine the way it is. could it be To many washers on the bowden tube allowing to much Throw at the pressure Plate??? I had only one washer on the bowden tube when the clutch went south the firs time. I have waisted just about all options any help would be greatly appreciated Eric.

Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:49 am

Don't want to seem like an idiot, but was reading the bentley and was wondering if you apply any grease to early TO bearings or is the only grease in that area going to be in the gland nut?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:18 am

Nothing on the TO bearing. A small amout of grease on the pilot bearing in the gland nut.

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:36 am

The issue with my clutch I finally solved= a broken clutch cable guide tube. Evidently with the guide tube broken away from the weld inside the tunnel it flexes the cable so I adjusted the clutch not as per bently manual ,but about half way pushed to the floor and clutch engages not allowing shift T/O bearing shaft to push too far in on the clutch which eventually will where out the pressure plate all is well now . Eric (VMR)

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:02 am

o.k., i've read through all of these posts but don't see anywhere how you go about attaching the center ring to the pressure plate. i have a kennedy p/p that came with a center ring (not affixed) in case i need it (which i do). i see how it "mates" to the p/p but don't see how to attach it. is there a trick? am i missing another part/parts?

thanx in advance.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:47 am

There should be a spiral ring the holds it in place. You put the centering ring on the finders of the pressure plate. Then twist the spiral ring in place behind it and it hold it in place.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:57 am

o.k. thanx for the quick response. i suspected that may be the case but didn't want to remove the spiral in case it was not the answer and have a pain in the a$$ getting it back on.

thanx again, craig.

Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:50 am

The way the clips hold the throwout bearing on the early setup looks precarious. Can anything be done at installation to ensure these clips don't ever fall off?

Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:34 pm

thetravman wrote: The way the clips hold the throwout bearing on the early setup looks precarious. Can anything be done at installation to ensure these clips don't ever fall off?

On later models with the sleeve the TO bearing clips are superior to the early design.

The 70 and earlier benefit from using this style clip...

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D111%2D141%2D177%2DHD

Also you can use some thin stainless steel wire ( ala aircraft technique) and wire the clips and bearing in place allowing room for movement but "saftey wireing" the clips in place....

Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:40 am

I got some clips that held up perfect. However 2 days ago or so I steppped on the clutch and I'll be danged if that cable diddn't break. But no, the pedal returned. Step on it but couldn't get it in gear. The OEM shaft broke it's arm. My little clips held on to my bearing which now held on to the "broken-weld" release arm.
I had some real excitement redoing that entire assembly over the last two days. I had to file and sand parts for hours to make the darn aftermarket stuff fit. I kept my new undamaged clutch. I replaced the damaged throwout bearing (German), the release shaft, the 2 clips, (I never trust some parts twice), and a lot of associated hardware.
This reply is late and a little long but If I had to do it all over again, I just might not want to do at all. Find out how to do it right using this thread and others. If you're in there please replace everything so you don't have to do it two or three times.

Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:43 am

thetravman wrote: The way the clips hold the throwout bearing on the early setup looks precarious. Can anything be done at installation to ensure these clips don't ever fall off?

I run a piece of safety wire through the loops in the clips and around the exterior "groove" of the entire throwout bearing. Holds things in place nicely.

Another thing to check is the place on the throwout fork where the throwout bearing rides. These half-round areas tend to wear with time which loosens the clip and eventually causes the end of the fork to break off. If it seems a bit thin I build the fork back up by welding some metal onto the surface and filing it back to shape. You can also replace the fork with a heavy duty aftermarket item that replaces the clip groove with a drilled hole. Much beefier.

The other weak spot is where the fork is spot-welded to the shaft. If I run across one of these I get out the welder and weld this area all around. It's much easier to weld _before_ it breaks!

The late model setup is much better, but if you don't have the proper sleeve on the tranny you are stuck with the earlier one. Properly beefed up it will last a lifetime.

George