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Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:24 pm

This may not compare to many of your stories, but here goes....

Driving along River Drive in Moline, Ill., along the beautiful Mississippi River this morning on my way to work...gorgeous day with the sun and blue sky glistening off the river. Speed limit is 30, and I'd doing about 33 or so. Knucklehead in a Chevy Blazer rides my rear bumper for about a half mile, then passes me. Of course, he gets stopped at a light, and it's then I see he is from Nebraska (shoulda figured).

Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:44 pm

Bierboy wrote: This may not compare to many of your stories, but here goes....

Driving along River Drive in Moline, Ill., along the beautiful Mississippi River this morning on my way to work...gorgeous day with the sun and blue sky glistening off the river. Speed limit is 30, and I'd doing about 33 or so. Knucklehead in a Chevy Blazer rides my rear bumper for about a half mile, then passes me. Of course, he gets stopped at a light, and it's then I see he is from Nebraska (shoulda figured).

Had that happen to me many times on River Drive, though not by someone with Nebraska plates. I think it's an 'asshole' thing, not a 'VW' thing.

Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:01 am

My personal observation after driving for almost 40 years (and air cooled VW's and Porsches for 38 years) is that especially in the past 10-15 years here in So. California it's gotten MUCH worse for me taking an air cooled VW on the freeway. There's been a sort of "REDNECK-IFICATION" going on. This redneck mentality is seen in the glut of large 4-by's, pickups, SUV's, etc. being driven agressively - or maybe it's just a dumbing-down or macho inconsideration of anyone else. ("The HIGHER the lift of the truck, the LOWER the IQ of the driver") On the freeways, most of these large speeding 4x4's, pickup trucks, and SUV's usually dont use turn signals, dont consider those around them, tail-gate, go 80 -90+ mph (Yeee-Haw!!!) unless traffic slows them down, kick rocks up on your winshield from the "off road" tires that NEVER go off road, still talk on cell phones, and certainly have no use or time for the "pussys" or "faggots" driving an old VW convertible in front of them 65mph in the slow lane..! I daily drove the freeways here many years in my VW's until it's now no longer safe to do in an aircooled VW. And, yes, it's usually the trucks / SUV's! BTW, the max. speed limit in the LA area freeways is 65mph...anyone ever pay attention to that anymore? But, when I take the vert out on local streets or down one of the canyons to the beach I get alot of thumbs up and generally have a good experience. Especially on PCH.

Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:39 am

when i see people driving like they own the road, just ignore them, let them past, they just have attention deficiency syndrome. . .

am i right or not?

Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:17 am

67conv wrote: My personal observation after driving for almost 40 years (and air cooled VW's and Porsches for 38 years) is that especially in the past 10-15 years here in So. California it's gotten MUCH worse for me taking an air cooled VW on the freeway. There's been a sort of "REDNECK-IFICATION" going on. This redneck mentality is seen in the glut of large 4-by's, pickups, SUV's, etc. being driven agressively - or maybe it's just a dumbing-down or macho inconsideration of anyone else. ("The HIGHER the lift of the truck, the LOWER the IQ of the driver") On the freeways, most of these large speeding 4x4's, pickup trucks, and SUV's usually dont use turn signals, dont consider those around them, tail-gate, go 80 -90+ mph (Yeee-Haw!!!) unless traffic slows them down, kick rocks up on your winshield from the "off road" tires that NEVER go off road, still talk on cell phones, and certainly have no use or time for the "pussys" or "faggots" driving an old VW convertible in front of them 65mph in the slow lane..! I daily drove the freeways here many years in my VW's until it's now no longer safe to do in an aircooled VW. And, yes, it's usually the trucks / SUV's! BTW, the max. speed limit in the LA area freeways is 65mph...anyone ever pay attention to that anymore? But, when I take the vert out on local streets or down one of the canyons to the beach I get alot of thumbs up and generally have a good experience. Especially on PCH.

It may have been completely unintentional, but that was pretty damn funny.

Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:07 am

It doesn't matter what part of the US you're in or what kind of car you're driving. Whether I drive a stock VW bug or my Ford F-150 truck, you can still get an A**-hole behind you no matter what lane or speed you're doing.
I've found I get tail gated more in the F-150 doing 5 miles an hour over the speed limit in the slow lane than my bug. When I drive my bug, I do hang in the slow lane and most drivers see me and change lanes before riding my bumper.

I also agree to not let these folks get under our skin. Why let one knuckle head cause our blood pressure to rise? I'd rather focus on enjoying a nice drive. :D

Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:45 am

you know what the big difference is? its people's First reaction to a bug!! they LAUGH without a doubt! but they dont when you're in a classic Mercedes..!

Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:44 am

I notice a pretty big difference between driving my bug and my Suzuki hatchback. They're assholes no matter what I'm driving, but it's like the bug makes people mad. I'm usually cruising at 70mph on the interstate on my way to work, whether I'm in the bug or the hatch... and people ride my ass and fly by the bug. Otherwise, I'm usually the one doing the passing! The previous owner of my bug spraypainted "I may be slow but I'm ahead of you" on the back, so maybe that's what does it. :D

Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:12 am

umm i think i see the problem... your all driving the speed limit!!
no one drives the speed limit now.
even though 5 mph faster will only get you some where about 5 minutes faster (depending on how far your driving) no one cares.

you might not realise it but that guy behind you probably doesnt care what car your driving all he cares about is that your slowing him down

even when im driving my bug i get mad at people for driving to slow even though I'm going just about as fast as i can :lol:

people are going to drive over thier heads all the time

just be glad your driving slow because you only have 56 horse power in one of the coolest cars ever made

Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:59 pm

bugninva wrote: MikeGatch wrote: You try to spare the back of someone's car and that is the thanks you get... Some people's children...

tried to spare the back of his car? why would you knowingly drive down the road in a car with brakes you know are inadequate? Serious question.

The bug is my only vehicle. it is my DD. I have done everything to get my brakes firm, but it always takes one pump. sometimes one and a half to get a firm pedal. I have adjusted shoes, bled, bled bled, adjusted, bled bled bled, replaced the master cylinder, bled bled and bled and adjusted them. I am quite sure my drums are out of round. I just have not had enough money to remedy this. I have a set of ghia disks/spindles that are going on when I can afford new ball joints.

It sucks not not be able to have everything perfect, but it stops okay after a pump, just didn't want to risk it since the road was clear.

Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:49 pm

MikeGatch wrote: bugninva wrote: MikeGatch wrote: You try to spare the back of someone's car and that is the thanks you get... Some people's children...

tried to spare the back of his car? why would you knowingly drive down the road in a car with brakes you know are inadequate? Serious question.

The bug is my only vehicle. it is my DD. I have done everything to get my brakes firm, but it always takes one pump. sometimes one and a half to get a firm pedal. I have adjusted shoes, bled, bled bled, adjusted, bled bled bled, replaced the master cylinder, bled bled and bled and adjusted them. I am quite sure my drums are out of round. I just have not had enough money to remedy this. I have a set of ghia disks/spindles that are going on when I can afford new ball joints.

It sucks not not be able to have everything perfect, but it stops okay after a pump, just didn't want to risk it since the road was clear.

Sounds like a faulty master cylinder or possibly swollen flex lines. You need to remedy that before you get into an accident, because converting to disc will not magically correct the problem.

Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:36 pm

MikeGatch wrote:
The bug is my only vehicle. it is my DD. I have done everything to get my brakes firm, but it always takes one pump. sometimes one and a half to get a firm pedal. I have adjusted shoes, bled, bled bled, adjusted, bled bled bled, replaced the master cylinder, bled bled and bled and adjusted them. I am quite sure my drums are out of round. I just have not had enough money to remedy this. I have a set of ghia disks/spindles that are going on when I can afford new ball joints.

It sucks not not be able to have everything perfect, but it stops okay after a pump, just didn't want to risk it since the road was clear.

Mike, I can sympathise with you... to a point... But is sure sounds like you need to get your brakes working properly.. if you've done all of the above, I'd say that the shoes are not adjusted properly if the pedal is firm after a pump of the pedal. That's not a blow on you, there are countless threads over the years of folks having the same problem and insisting they are adjusting the shoes properly, when in reality they are not... if the shoes *are* adjusted properly you may have too much pedal freeplay, or as gary pointed out, the flexlines could be crapping out..

Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:49 am

Sorry to be another one of those people that insist they adjust their brakes correctly. I think that the driving style of people today is different from the '60's. People are used to driving faster and stopping faster. Brakes are in fact much, much better now than they used to be. What were good brakes in the 40's, 50's and 60's are simply not good anymore, no matter how well adjusted.

I only drive my Beetle a couple of thousand miles a year, but I have to adjust and bleed the brakes at least twice a year, sometimes three times, even with all new hoses and cylinders. If I was going to drive my Beetle every day I would most definitely convert to front disks. We have a lot of local roads around here with 50 mph limits that have traffic lights, and when I am approaching one of them in the Beetle at 50 or more and it turns yellow, it's all I can do to shift down and brake in time with the stock drum brakes. I can't imagine what it would be like if it was raining, too.

I've experience brake fade several times and it's a frightening experience. VW's owner manuals recommended downshifting to slow down if you are in third or fourth, and suggest you use the brakes only when you are in second gear or first.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:11 am

79SuperVert wrote: Sorry to be another one of those people that insist they adjust their brakes correctly. I think that the driving style of people today is different from the '60's. People are used to driving faster and stopping faster. Brakes are in fact much, much better now than they used to be. What were good brakes in the 40's, 50's and 60's are simply not good anymore, no matter how well adjusted.

I only drive my Beetle a couple of thousand miles a year, but I have to adjust and bleed the brakes at least twice a year, sometimes three times, even with all new hoses and cylinders. If I was going to drive my Beetle every day I would most definitely convert to front disks. We have a lot of local roads around here with 50 mph limits that have traffic lights, and when I am approaching one of them in the Beetle at 50 or more and it turns yellow, it's all I can do to shift down and brake in time with the stock drum brakes. I can't imagine what it would be like if it was raining, too.

I've experience brake fade several times and it's a frightening experience. VW's owner manuals recommended downshifting to slow down if you are in third or fourth, and suggest you use the brakes only when you are in second gear or first. Huh? Anyone driving a standard should do that anyway. I got over 120,000 miles out of the original brakes on my Cavalier by downshifting rather than always applying the brakes. It's called sensible driving, but then most people don't drive sensibly anyway. It's always GAS/BRAKE/REPEAT

Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:37 am

Quote: We have a lot of local roads around here with 50 mph limits that have traffic lights, and when I am approaching one of them in the Beetle at 50 or more and it turns yellow, it's all I can do to shift down and brake in time with the stock drum brakes. I can't imagine what it would be like if it was raining, too.

My '66 has stock drums all the way around and iv'e had a few times where i have been doing 55 or more and a light turns yellow or red and I have had to get on the brakes hard, and it's suprising how good it actually stopped. My car is lowered and has 145sr15's on the front

Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:16 pm

my thoughts on my issue, because it seems to be proportional to how long it has been since I last hit the brakes: is that the drums are out of round and pushing the shoes out of adjustment over time. if they are adjusted to a low spot and are pushed out by a high spot. it seems like it could be an issue. I should be getting some cash here in awhile and I'll get the rear drums turned and put disks in the front, if there is still an issue, new lines and whatever else I can figure. The master is new as of last year.

Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:04 pm

Mike, that is plausible, but if that is what is happening you should feel pedal pulsation.... and it should be readily noticeable... I'd hate for you to save up money to just throw parts at it!

Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:41 am

Stock drum brakes are perfectly fine if they're maintained and adjust properly. Possibly not quite a snappy as modern disk brakes, but if slam the pedal down and the brakes don't grab HARD then somethings either grossly out of spec or not adjusted right or both.

Now if you're a moron and rod the brakes steadily down a hill, they most likely get worse much faster than disk brakes because they don't cool as well. But I don't think that's what people in this thread are talking about.

I had a moron in a BMW pull out and then stop across my lane REALLY CLOSE in front of me when I was going about 50 mph. I was driving my 1972 super. It was the first emergency stop I'd made in the car. (by the way, this was in the first year I owned the car so it was BEFORE I re-built the brake system). It squealed the tires hard, tracked straight, and stood the car up on its nose, and I stopped before I hit the other car.

I realize that's anectodal evidence, and only one instance. But I'm here to tell you that if you have to downshift to slow down for a light, then your brakes are screwed up. (You still should; it saves wear and tear on the shoes.)

They should be adjusted so that each wheel makes a scraping sound part way round as it turns. Furthermore, feel the drums when you get done driving. All four should be warm from braking. If not, then the ones that are hot are doing more of the braking than they should.

Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:16 am

Gary wrote: 79SuperVert wrote: Sorry to be another one of those people that insist they adjust their brakes correctly. I think that the driving style of people today is different from the '60's. People are used to driving faster and stopping faster. Brakes are in fact much, much better now than they used to be. What were good brakes in the 40's, 50's and 60's are simply not good anymore, no matter how well adjusted.

I only drive my Beetle a couple of thousand miles a year, but I have to adjust and bleed the brakes at least twice a year, sometimes three times, even with all new hoses and cylinders. If I was going to drive my Beetle every day I would most definitely convert to front disks. We have a lot of local roads around here with 50 mph limits that have traffic lights, and when I am approaching one of them in the Beetle at 50 or more and it turns yellow, it's all I can do to shift down and brake in time with the stock drum brakes. I can't imagine what it would be like if it was raining, too.

I've experience brake fade several times and it's a frightening experience. VW's owner manuals recommended downshifting to slow down if you are in third or fourth, and suggest you use the brakes only when you are in second gear or first. Huh? Anyone driving a standard should do that anyway. I got over 120,000 miles out of the original brakes on my Cavalier by downshifting rather than always applying the brakes. It's called sensible driving, but then most people don't drive sensibly anyway. It's always GAS/BRAKE/REPEAT

a wise man once said that he used to downshift to slow down, but later he learned that brakes are cheaper than a transaxle.

My opinion is that in a light car, drums are all you really need,

can you lock up the brakes?
ok, then it is not the drum brakes that are stopping your stopping ability, it is your tires and/or lack of weight.

Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:39 am

fastinradford wrote: Gary wrote: 79SuperVert wrote: Sorry to be another one of those people that insist they adjust their brakes correctly. I think that the driving style of people today is different from the '60's. People are used to driving faster and stopping faster. Brakes are in fact much, much better now than they used to be. What were good brakes in the 40's, 50's and 60's are simply not good anymore, no matter how well adjusted.

I only drive my Beetle a couple of thousand miles a year, but I have to adjust and bleed the brakes at least twice a year, sometimes three times, even with all new hoses and cylinders. If I was going to drive my Beetle every day I would most definitely convert to front disks. We have a lot of local roads around here with 50 mph limits that have traffic lights, and when I am approaching one of them in the Beetle at 50 or more and it turns yellow, it's all I can do to shift down and brake in time with the stock drum brakes. I can't imagine what it would be like if it was raining, too.

I've experience brake fade several times and it's a frightening experience. VW's owner manuals recommended downshifting to slow down if you are in third or fourth, and suggest you use the brakes only when you are in second gear or first. Huh? Anyone driving a standard should do that anyway. I got over 120,000 miles out of the original brakes on my Cavalier by downshifting rather than always applying the brakes. It's called sensible driving, but then most people don't drive sensibly anyway. It's always GAS/BRAKE/REPEAT

a wise man once said that he used to downshift to slow down, but later he learned that brakes are cheaper than a transaxle.

My opinion is that in a light car, drums are all you really need,

can you lock up the brakes?
ok, then it is not the drum brakes that are stopping your stopping ability, it is your tires and/or lack of weight.

Then he didn't know how to shift properly and was most likely grinding gears. :roll: