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Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:19 am

Hi guys, I have done alot of searching on here about insulating my 67 bus behind the panels and decided to go with the bubblewrap that has foil backing. I have two questions though.
Firstly do I fix directly onto the metalwork with glue etc, or do I attach it to the bearers leaving small gap between insualting material and metalwork, and secondly, do I face the foil outwards towards the bodywork and the plastic bubbles inwards. I thought maybe because I want to keep cold out in winter and heat out in summer (if we are lucky to have a summer over here) that is the way it goes.
I am hoping that this will act as a sound deadening aswell.
Any advise would be appreciated.
Thanks, Paul

Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:33 am

PaulyPaul wrote: Hi guys, I have done alot of searching on here about insulating my 67 bus behind the panels and decided to go with the bubblewrap that has foil backing. I have two questions though.
Firstly do I fix directly onto the metalwork with glue etc, or do I attach it to the bearers leaving small gap between insualting material and metalwork, and secondly, do I face the foil outwards towards the bodywork and the plastic bubbles inwards. I thought maybe because I want to keep cold out in winter and heat out in summer (if we are lucky to have a summer over here) that is the way it goes.
I am hoping that this will act as a sound deadening aswell.
Any advise would be appreciated.
Thanks, Paul

Yes, you can glue it with 3M adhesive right to the inside metal panels. The foil that I got from Home Depot had the foil layer on both sides with the bubbles in the middle. Insulation will work for both winter (keeping heat in) and summer (keeping cool in). That's the characteristics of insulation. Regarding sound deadening, the foil backed insulation will not provide a dramatic improvement....probably only a small one. See the material is very light. In order to deaden road noise, you would need to do a layer of dynomat or its equivilant which is much heavier product.

Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:12 pm

I'd recommend against gluing it in place. I insulated my '55 with this stuff, and I just laid it behind the panel and screwed it into place. On some places, I laid two layers of the stuff down. Gluing it in place is unnecessary and could be potentially annoying to a future owner.

Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:06 pm

Seen alot of debating about insulating our busses. This came to me in a dream, I swear. When roofers put on a wood shingle roof, they first put down a mesh to allow airflow. Helps prevent rot. Could we use something similar to hold insulation away from the metal while allowing condensation to drip down and out?

Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:24 am

The advantage of the foil and bubble insulation is that it does not hold water. Eliminates any moisture problems of insulation. Mice do try to use it for nests but it does not work well for them.

Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:34 am

WM971252 wrote: The advantage of the foil and bubble insulation is that it does not hold water. Eliminates any moisture problems of insulation. Mice do try to use it for nests but it does not work well for them.

Yes, but if the insulation has smooth side against cold metal. Moisture will condensate on the exposed metal, and work itself down in between plastic and metal due to capillary action. There the water will sit for long periods doing its magic rusting work, because the water has much less exposure to the open air and will dry out much much slower.

Think that attaching the bubble insulation to the interior panels would help and keep away from capillary action or if the bubble is exposed on one side put that side against the metal allowing for enough air flow between metal/plastic. VW issued a Technical Bulletin on how to insulate a panel van for temperature using styrofoam panels, and how to make the interior panels. Want to try this on our 1960 walk thru panel camper conversion. Thinking of gluing strips of styrofoam to the main styrofoam panels and installing strip side to the sheet metal to again provide more air flow. Tempted to also paint a very light layer of roofing tar to the interior sheet metal to keep the rust away in our damp PNW.

As for sound insulation same rust problems apply. VW in the later 1970s just applied with roofing tar as a glue with a square of tar paper to the center of the inside of the door sheet metal to dampen the vibrations of the metal acting like a speaker cone. The door sheet metal in these VWs never rusts out where the tar is applied.

Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:43 pm

The bubble wrap stuff is not insulaiton but a heat barrier.

I just finished insulating a friends sleeper and I used Polyisocyanurate housing insulation on the walls and Reflex heat barrier material (foil clad bubble pack) over it with a vapor barrier tacked to the walls behind the panels. I glued it right to the walls, and for the gaps I used plastic painter's drop cloth cut to fit into the gaps then sprayed in closed cell foam.

When I did my van (sorry but it was a GMC) with this combination, I had a big improvement keeping the heat in in the cold weather (-10 degrees) and keeping it cool in Yuma in the summer. I was sleeping in the van for weeks at a time while I was working and the weather was sometimes very harsh.

If water is an issue, than you can use close cell foam. I use the plastic painter's drop cloth to 'wrap' it in so I can remove it if there is an accident or have to do something in that area.

Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:06 pm

POR-15 can also be used as an adhesive.

Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:41 pm

greg334 wrote: The bubble wrap stuff is not insulaiton but a heat barrier.
Thanks for pointing that out, dude.

Anyhow, I went to Home Depot today and they did not have the bubblewrap foil insulation. :(
They used to have it at that store.

Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:51 pm

greg334 wrote: The bubble wrap stuff is not insulaiton but a heat barrier.

I seem to remember seeing an "R" value listed on the packing of the foil on both side, bubble in the middle stuff. Doesn't that have to do with its insulating value?

Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:33 am

Just throwing it out there. I buy kayaks wrapped in industrial bubble wrap 'sleeping bags'. It's smooth on one side and bubble on the other. It's not covered with foil. I used this in my bus because it was free and it worked great. I have rolls of it and I hate throwing it away because its basically new. If anyone wants some for their bus and is near Santa Cruz send me a PM and come get as much as you want. No shipping, just come by and scoop a roll.

Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:24 am

On both of my last panels I first installed 200 sq. ft. of 1/8" alum foil/rubber sound deadener to all inside surfaces (floor, sides, roof, doors, front nose). It,s costly (around $2.00 per sq. ft. ) but well worth it. I then add 2 layers of the alum/bubble/alum insulation, 400 sq. ft total, then install 1/8 " venier paneling on walls, roof, doors ect. On the floors I install 1/2" plywood over the sound deadner, then 1/2' carpet foam, then a good grade carpet from Sewfine. Not on bit of tinny noise and very well insulated in winter and our 120 plus summer days. I even install it in the overhead vent area. You can buy the alum/bubble/alum at any air cond outlet. The 400 Sq ft roll runs about $150.00 and comes 4 ft high and 100 ft long. Have picts if anyone wants to see them.

Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:53 pm

Well maybe I should have just stayed quiet. Just trying to help out.

The stuff is a supposed to be heat barrier, not an true insulation and it used to be listed on their website as such. It really needs an air gap to work effectively. After testing different combination of insulation, heat barriers and such for the past 4 years because I have to live in the trucks and vans I drive, the best combination that I came up with was the insulation against the metal, closed foam in the gaps and the reflex stuff covering it to reflect the warm/cool air back into the space.

With temps when I was in Yuma last year reaching over 100, I saw an overall 30 degree drop in heat with the air running in the sleeper compared to the year before.

The best stuff I found is from a company MIRCO & ALEX MAGNANI s.r.l. They actually make a reflective insulation and the samples I have really work great.

Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:52 pm

What about using clear silicone? I was considering its water repellant abilities. smear it on the main areas 1/8 to 1/4 thick. Not sure if it would cause rust or deaden sound. It would work as insulation. I want to reduce noise, and insulate.

Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:26 pm

Well silcon is water proof, but not water/rust repelant like tar. Seen plenty of rusted out Beetle floor pans in which the spots of tar that glued down the factory sound deadening sandwich of tar paper, styrofoam, tar paper. Only to find the pan around the tar glueing down the sound deadener was perfectly rust free for a few inches around.

Have also seen a 1967 Beetle where modern self sticking sound deadener material was installed. In the doors at the top of this material a bit of dirt/dust collected and any water that dripped past the roll down windows kept it wet there. Making for a nice horizontal rust line right through the door sheet metal. Maybe if the material had been installed in more of a diamond shape to shed the dirt/water it would have worked or just a bit longer before rusting....

Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:39 am

greg334 wrote:

The stuff is a supposed to be heat barrier, not an true insulation...
Maybe you are using the words in a technical way, but could you explain the differnce? :-k
Something that is a barrier to heat sounds awfully like insulation to me. :wink:

Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:22 am

greg334 wrote: Well maybe I should have just stayed quiet. Just trying to help out.

It really needs an air gap to work effectively.

maybe i am missing something, isnt that air trapped in the bubbles?

I used this stuff all over all my vws and it works quit well. Sound deadening is okay. I have used 3m spray adhesive to hold it in place but in the hot summer, the sun melts the glue and the relectix just peels right off. so now i just stuff in between the metal and panel, i pack it in real tight cuz air is already trapped in the bubbles. I have not had any rust issue yet to speak of. would it be a bad idea to por 15 the whole inside of the metal panel to make a protective layer? I did that to my syncro westy and seems to be holding up well.

Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:53 pm

try some top carpet underlay works a treat !!

Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:29 pm

greg334 wrote: The bubble wrap stuff is not insulaiton but a heat barrier.

I just finished insulating a friends sleeper and I used Polyisocyanurate housing insulation on the walls and Reflex heat barrier material (foil clad bubble pack) over it with a vapor barrier tacked to the walls behind the panels. I glued it right to the walls, and for the gaps I used plastic painter's drop cloth cut to fit into the gaps then sprayed in closed cell foam.

When I did my van (sorry but it was a GMC) with this combination, I had a big improvement keeping the heat in in the cold weather (-10 degrees) and keeping it cool in Yuma in the summer. I was sleeping in the van for weeks at a time while I was working and the weather was sometimes very harsh.

If water is an issue, than you can use close cell foam. I use the plastic painter's drop cloth to 'wrap' it in so I can remove it if there is an accident or have to do something in that area.

what is the closed cell foam? do you mean "great stuff" ? also you say you line the walls with vapor barrier then do the insulating so nothing contacts the metal? any pics? would like input from someone who actually has tested the results. and uses their vehicle. vw or not.

thanks,

Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:38 pm

Clara wrote: greg334 wrote:

The stuff is a supposed to be heat barrier, not an true insulation...
Maybe you are using the words in a technical way, but could you explain the differnce? :-k
Something that is a barrier to heat sounds awfully like insulation to me. :wink:

Clara did you find any yet and if so what did you think about it?
Linda