TheSamba.com :: View topic

Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:44 pm

Last week I swapped out the pedal assembly in my 65 Notch to an assembly from a 66 type1. The clutch lever on the type1 assembly is straight and not bent like the original one, so when I pushed the clutch in it would catch on something in the tunnel but the clutch seemed to work fine. 2 days ago I swapped the assembly back and adjusted for freeplay and now the clutch will not disengage??? I know the cable is not broke or streched bad because I have full movement on the clutch arm ( arm the cable is attached to on the tranny). With the car running I can push the clutch to the floor( in neutral) and when I put it in gear it will grind , lurch and die . Is this a bad clutch / throwout bering or somthing I did?? I have checked and rechecked everything. Please help.

Thanks!!

-jb

Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:48 pm

It actually sounds to me as if the clutch cable tube in the tunnel has come loose. :shock:

Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:37 pm

Tram wrote: It actually sounds to me as if the clutch cable tube in the tunnel has come loose. :shock:

If that were the case would the clutch arm on the tranny still have the full range of movement? I just installed my new carpet too!

Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:51 pm

Bunk_66 wrote: Tram wrote: It actually sounds to me as if the clutch cable tube in the tunnel has come loose. :shock:

If that were the case would the clutch arm on the tranny still have the full range of movement? I just installed my new carpet too!

Yes. That noise you were hearing of something "catching" in the tunnel with the other pedal set is what got me thinking. I had this problem on a '66 Square and it drove me freakin' bananas until I figured it out. I thought it was the pedal arm making the noise as well, until I found out what was really going on. You can fix it without ripping up the carpet. Grab the clutch tube at the back with the wingnut off the cable and the Bowden tube off. If you can move the metal tube around, there's your problem. Let me know what you find.

Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:16 pm

Tram wrote: Bunk_66 wrote: Tram wrote: It actually sounds to me as if the clutch cable tube in the tunnel has come loose. :shock:

If that were the case would the clutch arm on the tranny still have the full range of movement? I just installed my new carpet too!

Yes. That noise you were hearing of something "catching" in the tunnel with the other pedal set is what got me thinking. I had this problem on a '66 Square and it drove me freakin' bananas until I figured it out. I thought it was the pedal arm making the noise as well, until I found out what was really going on. You can fix it without ripping up the carpet. Grab the clutch tube at the back with the wingnut off the cable and the Bowden tube off. If you can move the metal tube around, there's your problem. Let me know what you find.

Thanks for the info Tram. I am at work now so I will give it a try tomorrow am. I changed back over to the other pedal assembly and no catching or noise when I push in the clutch. I read if the tube is broke it will rattle when you push the clutch in. Ill let you know what I find tomorrow. If this is the problem can I fix it from the bottom of the car?? Would hate to have to pull up that nice new oatmeal carpet. :)

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:21 pm

Tram wrote: Bunk_66 wrote: Tram wrote: It actually sounds to me as if the clutch cable tube in the tunnel has come loose. :shock:

If that were the case would the clutch arm on the tranny still have the full range of movement? I just installed my new carpet too!

Yes. That noise you were hearing of something "catching" in the tunnel with the other pedal set is what got me thinking. I had this problem on a '66 Square and it drove me freakin' bananas until I figured it out. I thought it was the pedal arm making the noise as well, until I found out what was really going on. You can fix it without ripping up the carpet. Grab the clutch tube at the back with the wingnut off the cable and the Bowden tube off. If you can move the metal tube around, there's your problem. Let me know what you find.

Ok well I think I did it right (see pics)

First pic is where the clutch tube exits the pan and meets the bowden tube. There is also a hole (for lack of better terms) that is just forward of
the clutch tube that I could stick my hand in and wiggle the tube but I was unable to move it or twist it. I then had my son push the clutch in while holding the clutch tube. If its broken the weld, its at the front of the car. Sorry if the pics are a bit crude. Next question is if the welds a the front of the car are broke can I repair this from underneth the car?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:05 pm

Open the hood, and remove the spare tire. Then, take the spare tire well out- the black lower part that unbolts.
Next, remove the round access plug on the lower apron under the front bumper.
You are now looking, through that hole, at a rectangular cover plate behind the front axle beam, held on by two 10mm head bolts. At this point, raise the front of the car on jackstands and remove this cover plate. It MIGHT be covered with undercoating or other crap, but it's there, behind the beam, in a direct line with the hole you just uncovered on the apron.
Shine your flashlight in there, and there's your tube. See if it busted loose from the "finger" it's welded to. If it is, you can get a small hoseclamp and fasten it together TIGHT. That's what I did. On mine, it was sliding around in and out with the cable, so I first slid the tube OUT towards the back, and clamped a small hoseclamp on the tube so that it contacted the INNER hole with enough of the tube sticking out to correctly join the Bowden tube. Actually, I double clamped it, that tacked it with a wire welder. Then I slid the tube back up in and clamped the front. Worked like a charm!
Or, if you're a really good welder, you can weld it. It's tight in there.
After that, you need to adjust the sag in your bowden tube. Get washers with the proper size hole to fit the "snout" end of the tube (where it goes into the bracket on the trans). Add shims until you have the correct "sag" per the repair manuals.
Then, install the cable and adjust the free play to approx. 24 mm at the top of the pedal.
If you still have a problem after that, you either have a pilot shaft bearing that's siezed, or an internal clutch/ fork issue.

Incidentally, if you ever have to remove the long shifter rod, this is how you get to that as well. Undo the coupling at the back, and remobe it thru the hole out front. :wink:

Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:15 pm

Tram wrote: Open the hood, and remove the spare tire. Then, take the spare tire well out- the black lower part that unbolts.
Next, remove the round access plug on the lower apron under the front bumper.
You are now looking, through that hole, at a rectangular cover plate behind the front axle beam, held on by two 10mm head bolts. At this point, raise the front of the car on jackstands and remove this cover plate. It MIGHT be covered with undercoating or other crap, but it's there, behind the beam, in a direct line with the hole you just uncovered on the apron.
Shine your flashlight in there, and there's your tube. See if it busted loose from the "finger" it's welded to. If it is, you can get a small hoseclamp and fasten it together TIGHT. That's what I did. On mine, it was sliding around in and out with the cable, so I first slid the tube OUT towards the back, and clamped a small hoseclamp on the tube so that it contacted the INNER hole with enough of the tube sticking out to correctly join the Bowden tube. Actually, I double clamped it, that tacked it with a wire welder. Then I slid the tube back up in and clamped the front. Worked like a charm!
Or, if you're a really good welder, you can weld it. It's tight in there.
After that, you need to adjust the sag in your bowden tube. Get washers with the proper size hole to fit the "snout" end of the tube (where it goes into the bracket on the trans). Add shims until you have the correct "sag" per the repair manuals.
Then, install the cable and adjust the free play to approx. 24 mm at the top of the pedal.
If you still have a problem after that, you either have a pilot shaft bearing that's siezed, or an internal clutch/ fork issue.

Incidentally, if you ever have to remove the long shifter rod, this is how you get to that as well. Undo the coupling at the back, and remobe it thru the hole out front. :wink:

Thanks a ton Tram!! Ill give it a go starting tomorrow. I have half a mind to sell the thing and be done with it.

Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:42 pm

Ok Tram I finally got around to following your instructions and found that the tube (where it attaches to the clutch pedal) is moving just a bit twords the front of the car when the clutch is pressed. Its not moving much , probably only a 1/4 inch or less. I am guessing it should have 0 movement correct???

Also in your instructions on how to fix it you mentioned sliding the tube out twords the rear of the car. How do you do this if all the welds are not broke? It was my understanding there are more than 1 weld that holds the tube in place? Can I just cut a hole in the bottom of the pan , weld the tube and patch the hole back up??

Thanks!

Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:45 pm

Yes, that tube should not move at all.

Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:42 pm

Ok well while trying to mess with the bowden tube I was able to move the clutch tube quite a bit. Can I cut a couple of holes in the pan from underneath and weld the tube back?

-jb

Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:54 pm

Cut it from inside the car. There are 3 welded points on the tube. One is right behind the pedal, the second is right below and to the rear a little of the Ebrake handle. The third is where the tube exits the tunnel.
The brackets it is attached to also hold the gas lines, so be careful.

Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:31 pm

[quote="Bunk_66"] Tram wrote: Open the hood, and remove the spare tire. Then, take the spare tire well out- the black lower part that unbolts.
Next, remove the round access plug on the lower apron under the front bumper.
You are now looking, through that hole, at a rectangular cover plate behind the front axle beam, held on by two 10mm head bolts. At this point, raise the front of the car on jackstands and remove this cover plate. It MIGHT be covered with undercoating or other crap, but it's there, behind the beam, in a direct line with the hole you just uncovered on the apron.
Shine your flashlight in there, and there's your tube. See if it busted loose from the "finger" it's welded to. If it is, you can get a small hoseclamp and fasten it together TIGHT. That's what I did. On mine, it was sliding around in and out with the cable, so I first slid the tube OUT towards the back, and clamped a small hoseclamp on the tube so that it contacted the INNER hole with enough of the tube sticking out to correctly join the Bowden tube. Actually, I double clamped it, that tacked it with a wire welder. Then I slid the tube back up in and clamped the front. Worked like a charm!
Or, if you're a really good welder, you can weld it. It's tight in there.
After that, you need to adjust the sag in your bowden tube. Get washers with the proper size hole to fit the "snout" end of the tube (where it goes into the bracket on the trans). Add shims until you have the correct "sag" per the repair manuals.
Then, install the cable and adjust the free play to approx. 24 mm at the top of the pedal.
If you still have a problem after that, you either have a pilot shaft bearing that's siezed, or an internal clutch/ fork issue.

Incidentally, if you ever have to remove the long shifter rod, this is how you get to that as well. Undo the coupling at the back, and remobe it thru the hole out front. :wink:

Tram do you have a diagram or a drawing of the tube with the hose clamps on it? I am a bit confused. (nothing new though)

Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:59 pm

Russ Wolfe wrote: Cut it from inside the car. There are 3 welded points on the tube. One is right behind the pedal, the second is right below and to the rear a little of the Ebrake handle. The third is where the tube exits the tunnel.
The brackets it is attached to also hold the gas lines, so be careful.

I just installed my new carpet kit so I would like to avoid pulling it up if possible.

-jb