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Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:40 am

camerod wrote: rjonas wrote: . I could point out several areas that concerned me with the "original" design on this thread and how I resolved them.

please do! point this out for me, I would like to know what you felt were issues with our design? I am curious to know what you changed for ease of build and what you thought was nescessary? we were originally going to install simular gutter clamps but deemed them unnesscassary once the rotisseries were done as there is no flex.

for the record, I do not care that you coppied us. that is why we posted the pictures. I beileve Aaron even suggested it in a post? and I have offered "plans" to people. you should have contacted us first, we would have shared what we thought should have been changed!
we got alot of interest in making more from viewers but decided against it for liability reasons.

I would finish your "cart" and add casters if I were you, I have been steadily working on my bus in my rottiserie for 2 weeks now and I constantly flip it around to get to stuff at least like 10 times a day! sliding it would be a drag :lol:

I am also curious about the balance of your design, looks bottom heavy in the pictures based on the center of gravity of a stripped bus shell being about the botton of the VW emblem?

Ok. First I want to point out your design was very inspirational to me and I am not "bashing" it in any way. I am sure your's is solid, safe and very functional. I have a very small budget and have learned over my years that simple is usually a better way to to anything. I like to share ideas when I can, remain open minded to most anything and am eager to take time to explain to others when asked.

A) My 7' garage door when raised has an 87" to floor clearance so my hoops were reduced to 86" diameter from their original 102" (but thats a whole story in itself) and I positioned the bus as high in it as possible. Yes, it's a little bottom heavy but nothing that I cant handle rotating by myself. And I promised to always keep my wife a parking space for her in the garage especially during crappy weather. This rotisserie is the key.

B) I made drip rail clamps designed like large door hinges to support the bus inside the hoop opposite of the frame connection. I remove the two 6mm bolts holding the outer clamp retainer then pull the 3/8" bolt and slide 1/2 of my "hinge" out for extracting the bus.

C) Your rollers required a machinist to make and really only "guide" the hoops with about 1/4" x 1/2" side contact. My rollers are sandwiched between two 2"x2"x1/4" angle iron giving almost 24" of "guide". I use 2 standard 4" "C" clamps to squeeze the angles for securing in any position.

D) Your connection at the rear hoop is relying solely on the plate bolted to the tortion and it looks "milled out" for adjustability? And it appears to be 3-4" before there is any lateral connection. Triangulation is the key to strength and I used an 8"x5" gussset and 1-1/4" tube to "triangulate" it to the hoop and cross tube.

E) Your front plates connect to the cross bar via "strait" pipes again with no lateral support until the hoop and cross bar that is ~ 30" away. This seems a bit "narrow footed". I added pipes at an angle out as close to the hoop as possible where I welded them to the removable clamps on the hoop assembly for extracting the hoops off the bus. Again for triangulation.

F) I do have plans for casters in the future, it's why I have flipped angles on the ends of the bases for mounting them to. At which point I will add bracing between the bases in case a castor hits a crack then wants to tip the whole thing over. But for now I have plenty of work to do on it before needing to have the front accessable. In this picture below, there are no clamps holding the rotisserie from spinning even with the bus tilted at a 45-deg angle. Some built in friction between my rollers and angle iron base make this possible.

Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:03 pm

very nice! they are both pretty cool,i think i would follow your simple design if i were to build one

Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:24 pm

very good design bet its expensive to get the box section rolled isnt it.

Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:36 pm

You mean this?

Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:51 pm

Culito wrote: You mean this?

I would be interested to hear the process you went through to make those hoops with that setup. I like home brewed solutions.

Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:30 pm

we used a Jansen ornamental bender on ours...took a full day to manually bend enough material for 3 rotisseries! best of all, I was having hernea issues at the time so Aaron got to do all the work!

check out this swanky video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3nR2M-r-Dw

Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:22 pm

Firstly I think it's cool rjonas built a rotisserie and I could really care less how heavily he "borrowed" from our design. As Cameron mentioned, we posted detailed pics after agreeing we were not interested in producing and marketing these.
The triangulation ideas mentioned are obviously valid in theory but realistically we're not building bridges here, we're talking about approx 1500 lbs. Sure you can create trusses, triangulate, add a bunch of braces and clamp the gutters. But why do all that when it's not needed. All that noise impedes ones work space and complicates things. Our goal was to "float" a bus in the hoop, anything short of that would have felt like a failure of sorts.
Our rotisseries were designed in such a way that they can be used for vehicles other then buses. The front and rear mounts have a simple symmetrical bolt-on design. "Shear" load on the rear mounting plates was taken into consideration, our calculations proved correct as there is no deflection.
I struggle to see how our "cart design" is in any way compromised in comparison to the one rjonas built. Should a hoop "jump the track" from one of the rollers it would still be resting in the channel of the carrier. rjonas mentioned difficulty spinning his bus, I have to wonder how much of that is drag from the hoops rubbing against the base channel.
We spent a bunch of time machining solid stock rollers, making greaseable axles, ect. ect. while building our rotisseries. Maybe it was overkill but they work great, the bus is balanced, they spin smoothly, feel solid and will out last any of us. I wish MO. wasn't so far, I'd love to check out the rjonas rotisserie in person. It would be really interesting to get a "feel" for the difference the extra details we added made.
Now let's see someone take the rotisserie thing to the next level and blow all of our minds.

Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:35 pm

camerod wrote: we used a Jansen ornamental bender on ours...took a full day to manually bend enough material for 3 rotisseries! best of all, I was having hernea issues at the time so Aaron got to do all the work!

You worked that day, someone had to hold the umbrella and tighten the T-handle. What a way to spend the hottest day of the summer, good times.

Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:14 am

Aaron wrote: The triangulation ideas mentioned are obviously valid in theory but realistically we're not building bridges here, we're talking about approx 1500 lbs. Sure you can create trusses, triangulate, add a bunch of braces and clamp the gutters. But why do all that when it's not needed. All that noise impedes ones work space and complicates things. Our rotisseries were designed in such a way that they can be used for vehicles other then buses. The front and rear mounts have a simple symmetrical bolt-on design. I wish MO. wasn't so far, I'd love to check out the rjonas rotisserie in person. It would be really interesting to get a "feel" for the difference the extra details we added made.
Now let's see someone take the rotisserie thing to the next level and blow all of our minds.

I agree with you my extra bracing is not necessary as your rig obviously works great. I did not intend to criticize your work, you asked me to after Sled jabbed me for stealing your idea and implied my copy was flawed. The thought of your hoop jumping off the rollers never really crossed my mind, again another Sled implication that mine did not have a "guide". I assumed Sled was one of your build partners from his original response.
My apologies.

Camerod & Aaron you guys pioneered this design and shared it with the rest of us. I thank you for that. My rig can only do a split bus/truck and yours is much more versatile for others types of vehicles and that is a very important decision for anyone building one to consider. I tried to leave room for fitting a baywindow bus but It's not possible with my 87" height restriction, It would have been "really" bottom heavy. Anyone is welcome to stop by and spin my bus and I will get a video clip of it in action and post here as soon as I can.

The cheap $80 Harbor Freight conduit bender in the above photo did not create the hoop. I used it to shrink the hoops from 102" to 86" diameter. I made a mark every 6" and made three passes with one full pump each. I imagine if you had a shoe and rollers made to fit square tubing it would bend it fine. The ornamental bender camerod used is your best tool for it though more pricey.

Thanks for the kudo's on my efforts with the rotisserie and my "pan off" resto. Now let's all get back to the garage and get something done.

Later,
Roy

Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:33 am

if balance is an issue you can always attach some lead ballast to the opposing side, it will not take much since you will be adding weight futher from center.

I recently noticed my bus is getting off ballance left-to-right as the drivers side is mostly intact and I have removed alot of weight from the passenger side...not really enough to worry about ballast but it is noticable!

Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:45 am

rjonas wrote: Sled jabbed me for stealing your idea and implied my copy was flawed. The thought of your hoop jumping off the rollers never really crossed my mind, again another Sled implication that mine did not have a "guide". I assumed Sled was one of your build partners from his original response.
My apologies.

Yeah, Im the bad guy. I was not jabbing at you. the imitation comment was a joke. everyone copies everyone else at some point. This full hoop rotisserie concept is nothing new.

rjonas wrote: Camerod & Aaron you guys pioneered this design and shared it with the rest of us.

really? these guys must have copied Aaron and Cameron then

I agree, lets just see these things being put to work. Post up how your 21 window surgery is coming.

Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:51 am

sled wrote: rjonas wrote: Sled jabbed me for stealing your idea and implied my copy was flawed. The thought of your hoop jumping off the rollers never really crossed my mind, again another Sled implication that mine did not have a "guide". I assumed Sled was one of your build partners from his original response.
My apologies.

Yeah, Im the bad guy. I was not jabbing at you. the imitation comment was a joke. everyone copies everyone else at some point. This full hoop rotisserie concept is nothing new.

rjonas wrote: Camerod & Aaron you guys pioneered this design and shared it with the rest of us.

really? these guys must have copied Aaron and Cameron then

I agree, lets just see these things being put to work. Post up how your 21 window surgery is coming.

thanx for the pic Sled, I have heard about that rotisserie but never got to see a picture!

just goes to show that there is a million ways to build a better mouse trap...

Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:01 am

i have to say they are both neat,but the rain gutter clamps are a genius move,we are cutting them apart and attaching just the frame has always bugged me

also i dont see a problem with the triangle setup,it doesnt look like its in any of the problem areas anyway,where it is,it looks like tools will fit in there no problem

Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:11 am

i know to some its not a big deal but.......its a bummer rjonas couldnt have sourced a 65 chassis,the 67s have a different chassis,not huge deal to some

Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:18 am

sled wrote: I agree, lets just see these things being put to work. Post up how your 21 window surgery is coming.

In a couple of weeks I will start a new thread on it.
The '67 chassis differences were a plus to me...rear seat belt mounts, dual ckt master cyl, etc.
Radio hole will be changed though.
Not many buses to choose from here in the rust & recycle belt. :(
I'm done. Back to the rotisserie topic.

Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:21 am

right on,after i posted that i realized if you put bellypans on it you wouldnt notice anything but the floor differences anyway and seatbelts are nice

Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:58 pm

What size of tubing did you use for the hoops?

Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:27 pm

All I can say is, these Rotisseriues Rock !! I'm so happy to have a toy like this to play w/ my VW truck on. I've been scrimping & saving , buying the tools---grinders,drills,Sawz-all, compressor, torch, Mig, ect. the last piece of the puzzle was buying the rotiss., and now that I've jumped in the lake, --cutting, patching --rebuiling the under carrage--I'm loving IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

So what ever style you build or buy, DIG IN !!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:00 pm

crukab wrote: All I can say is, these Rotisseriues Rock !! I'm so happy to have a toy like this to play w/ my VW truck on. I've been scrimping & saving , buying the tools---grinders,drills,Sawz-all, compressor, torch, Mig, ect. the last piece of the puzzle was buying the rotiss., and now that I've jumped in the lake, --cutting, patching --rebuiling the under carrage--I'm loving IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

So what ever style you build or buy, DIG IN !!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
RIGHT ON Crukab.....Just have fun !

Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:58 am

Very nice Halfastvw!!
I like the full tubing frame jig style.
Really a nice platform to do major reconstruction on.