TheSamba.com :: View topic

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:34 pm

When in doubt go to the Bentley manual, right? :-k I wanted to double check before torqueing down my rear axle nuts on my '64 T1 swingaxle.

From my Bentley Workshop Manual Volkswagen 1200, 1961 - 1965

Page H-2 (4) "tighten rear axle shaft nuts with a torque wrench to 30 mkg (271 ft. lbs.)"

Page H-4 (2) "Tighten rear axle shaft nut with a torque wrench to 30 mkg (217 ft. lbs.)"

Page H4A (2) Tighten rear axle nut to a torque of 216 lb. ft. (30 mkg) and secure it with a cotter pin.

WTF!!!! This is supposed to be the "be all and end all" of VW manuals! I'm glad they at least agree from page to page about the metric torque spec! Three different pages, three different conversions of the same torque spec.......... :evil:

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:41 pm

Hey dude, don't diss Mr Bentley! :wink:

Any book will have its typos, and Bentley, in republishing this old book, didn't re-write it, they took photostats of the original 2 volume VW manual from back in the 60's, so many little typos and slight inconsistancies remain. Plus archaic info like using benzine to clean parts.

Part of that 216/217 spec is a matter of converting from metric to SAE.
The 271, that's a typo, of course.

Anyway, since once you tighten it to that point, then crank down on it further til you get a hole lined up for the cotter pin, you'll have anywhere from a few to a lot more pound feet of torque on that nut over that 217 reading, so it's not really a big deal.

-Andy

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:35 pm

the benley was reprinted from a borrowed copy that had pages replaced as they came as updates to dealership. the original workshop manuals were 4 ring binders. pages could be removed or added as updates were received from germany. 216 is minumum foot pounds for this axle nut. where is roachdub58 to answer this tech question. yes i was a dealership mechanic/tech in 60's and 70's.

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:34 pm

I guess the reason it bothers me is due to the price they want for the book......
I know that typos happen, and I know that mathematical conversions can vary by a little. But I would expect that at $80 to $100 per copy they could afford to pay some proofreaders! This data isn't changing anymore. Its not being updated by VW any longer. The text should not contain errors....they've had over 40 years to sort them out!
I understand the value of the Bentley's manuals to all of us. It's probably the best resource we have. I just wish they would value our business enough to correct blatant errors.....

Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:49 pm

mailman wrote: But I would expect that at $80 to $100 per copy they could afford to pay some proofreaders!

:shock: That's why I bought a used copy on ebay for $10.! :wink:

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:18 am

And they certainly didn't sell for that when they were published :roll:

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:41 am

i just bought me a used Bentley manual for $21!

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:47 am

I don't think they sold them, period, when they were new. They were for the dealers only. Like Bill said, they were in large binders so revisions could be sent out and added to the books, making them an evolving manual until VW decided to stop supporting it.

What consumers got were the around-300 page condensed versions - the Owner's Service Manual for the 1200 and Volkswagen Service Manual for the 1300-1500, first published in Germany by Delius+Klasing before Robert Bentley started printing them in the US sometime around 1970. Bentley later re-worked the Delius+Klasing manuals into the service books we know today. However they never did rework the older huge Workshop Manuals much that I could tell beyond retitling sections. They probably could have done more, but then the question would be - how much would have been enough? They never did rework even the Owner's Service Manual for the 1200, like they did for the 66-69 book, which surprised me. Maybe by then in the 70's, Bentley didn't think there was a market enough for that book to do so and concentrated on newer and brand-new models instead. I guess that not until the restoration crowd came along in the late 80's did they decide to do something with the 1200 book, and then they went all-out and just reproduced the huge dealer book.

Getting a copy of one of those old Delius+Klasing books, or an early Bentley printing of them, isn't a bad idea, the glossy paper they used then has better picture quality, plus you got color plates for the wiring diagrams too. Examples of what those old books looked like:

-Andy

Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:17 am

got my 63-67 transporter bentley for free.

Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:18 am

67_13Deluxe wrote: got my 63-67 transporter bentley for free.

i hate you! wanna sell it? :D

just picked up a 67 standard and i know im going to need that book.

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:47 am

Well, it looks like I'm the only one around that finds this annoying. :roll: I'm glad you guys found copies on the cheap or for free, but that doesn't address the fact that Bentley still sells this book on their website for $109.95.
I'm just saying that at that price, I expected better. I think we've become too ready to accept lesser quality today. Its starting to seem as if you can never get your money's worth anymore.....

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:20 am

i am here smartass. and if I was retired and did nothing but stare at the screen all day, I would be the first to answer his post. Bill, i'm not doubting you have knowledge as well. I think you are rude. That's all! I must have hit a nerve for standing up to your mistreatment of the newbies. By the way MY rag is original, not a clip. You changed your story about doing the clip.

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:19 pm

Interesting thread. I was so excited when the 1200 manual was to be re-issued that I bought one through a pre-publishing promotion at the Classic years ago. I have never been disappointed in it for technical information or just plain "historical reading". At 1364 pages, the list price calculates out to around 8¢ per page, and the pages are much better than what you'd get from Kinkos (and it can be found at cheaper prices). Throw in a nice "leatherette" cover and think it's a bargain. I'm thankful enough that Bentley decided to reprint it that I'll even overlook a few typos since they were in the originals that they scanned from...more history!

L572

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:39 pm

L572 wrote: I'll even overlook a few typos since they were in the originals that they scanned from...more history!
L572

Yeah, that's it exactly. It's a more a historical document, not a modern service manual.

Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:32 pm

roachdub58 wrote: i am here smartass. and if I was retired and did nothing but stare at the screen all day, I would be the first to answer his post. Bill, i'm not doubting you have knowledge as well. I think you are rude. That's all! I must have hit a nerve for standing up to your mistreatment of the newbies. By the way MY rag is original, not a clip. You changed your story about doing the clip.

rare air(glenn pablo) bought a clip for $40 that was from a rolled 57. he asked me to weld it in ,which i did into his 61 beetle that had massive dents in the roof. it was cut 3" bigger than the opening but had the reinforcements on it. he posted pictures of me cutting and welding it in . it was done at randar wheels. my 60 is original ragtop from the factory. you said you do it by drilling spotwelds around windshield and etc. rude?? sometimes-but out of 80 posts on samba by you 79 must be attacks on me. i was glad to see you post tech info for a change instead of attacking my fabrication skills/skilz or whatever. accosiates degree (2 year) auto tech(mechanic) 2 yr. ass. degree auto motive upholstry. 4 yr aircooled tech at dealership vw of course, journeyman machinist card 1972 while working,30 years 4/69-4/99 at robert bosch(yes that robert bosch,plugs,dist etc) i try to get correct info out there. what are your qualkifications by the way???