TheSamba.com :: View topic - Removing the alternator while engine is still in car

Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:50 pm

I guess I did not explain what I was talking about. It is easy to get the shroud out of the engine compartment especially in a karmann ghia. The problem is after it comes out, how do I hold the nut with the 36mm and turn the adjustable wrench in the front.

I have taken the fan shroud more than once in the past, but loosing the alternator is a pin in this instance.

Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:26 pm

Find someone with an air wrench is the easiest way, bet a shop could take it off for little to nothing, you reasemble the thing and have them wrench it back on. That the way i did it, if some one has used an air wrench to get it on the good luck getting it off with out one.

Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:44 pm

sepulvedac wrote: I was thinking about that. It is too tough to get loose. I should turn counterclockwise to get it loose, right? :shock:

If you are turning the breaker bar, you should turn it clockwise (as viewed from the rear of the car) to loosen the fan nut. However, there is an easier way. Read on:

Use the breaker bar/36mm socket combo to hold the fan nut steady. Brace it against the body with a short cheater. Then, use the wrench on the pulley to loosen the nut by turning the pulley counterclockwise.

It can be done, and it won't be any easier to remove the fan nut with the generator/fan removed from the engine via the old "raise the shroud" method.

Don't lose the shims on the fan, and keep track of which ones were in front or behind the fan. If you are changing the generator or fan you need to reset the clearance between the fan and the tin with the shims. Assemble the fan temporarily with the generator removed, then disassemble, put the fan in the shroud, arrange the shims as determined by the trial assembly, and install the generator.

Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:10 pm

I just removed my alternator in the car. I used a 36 mm socket and breaker bar, no extension, at the fan nut. The breaker bar was braced up against the body.

I then reassembled the fan belt pulley on the alternator, and then wrapped a chain Vise Grip wrench around the pulley. The chain fit in the pulley groove quite well and then with some effort turning the wrench, the rear nut came loose.

The only problem was some slight marking of the inside of the pulley. you could also try a strap wrench instead of the Vise Grips.

I first tried to turn the pulley by using a wrench on the pulley nut as GeorgeL described but I started to feel as if I was going to strip or break the nut.

By using the pulley to apply torque it seemed like I used alot less effort.

It worked for me......

Chris B

Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:53 pm

im doing it way different. i would take the belt off, take the carb off loosen the 4 bolts holding the generator to the fan shroud lift the fan shroud up and pull the generator out. you never have to worry about loosing the wave wosher or nut or the two nuts holding the generator to the shroud. i couldnt think how hard it would be to get the wave wosher back on and then the nut while the fan is still inside the shroud. hmmm it takes me about 30-45 min to get that bad boy out.

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:54 pm

porterville wrote: im doing it way different. i would take the belt off, take the carb off loosen the 4 bolts holding the generator to the fan shroud lift the fan shroud up and pull the generator out. you never have to worry about loosing the wave wosher or nut or the two nuts holding the generator to the shroud. i couldnt think how hard it would be to get the wave wosher back on and then the nut while the fan is still inside the shroud. hmmm it takes me about 30-45 min to get that bad boy out.

The tough thing about this is when you have a doghouse shroud. You have to remove the cooler ductwork on the front of the shroud, as well as disconnect the thermostat and hope that you don't bung up the oil cooler or its seal while fiddling with lifting the shroud.

Keeping track of the washers is easy by comparison.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:59 pm

All,
I can't fathom why a grip on the pulley (outer rims?) is being used to remove the 36mm nut. Have I missed something?

EDIT. Now I remember that some OG pulley outer halves have two tabs and matching slots in the rear and no flats to swing a shifter from!! :x

I just pull the front pulley off and use a 15" shifter on the two flats that are exposed on the rear pulley half. One 36mm nut I tried was extremely
tight so I pulled the alt/fan and held those two flats in a soft jaw equipped vice, 36mm socket and breaker bar on the other end.
A Penetrine soaking overnight freed it but it was certainly done up too tight.

Volkenstein

Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:38 pm

Why not pull motor It only takes about 45 minutes and you can work so much easier If I have to do anything major on mine I always pull motor no droped wrench no leaning over my paint 45 min out 45 min in job done

Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:53 pm

Because when you have dual carbs, remote oil filter and oil cooler. traction bar and other stuff, it's not like dropping a stock engine.

And a stock engine should take only 20 minutes to get out.

Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:50 pm

it's way mor tricky to do if you have a single carb

Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:09 am

If you can pull the stock motor in 20 min, Then those other four items you listed should not take you more than 20 more. Mr Charlie Daniels of the Tork Wrench!! And If you got dual carbs what is the problem any way! :shock:

Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:51 am

I've personally done a clutch job on a bone stock engine in under one hour. That's drop the engine, R&R the clutch and reinstall the engine.

As for dual carbs you still have the alternator stand in the way. And if you've ever had dual carbs getting to the front studs is a major PITA. Expect to spend an hour removing a dual carb engine and maybe an hour and a half reinstalling it and setting up the carbs.

My method works but if you want to argue about it try posting in the Rants and not in the tech forum.

Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:16 am

its not that hard to take out the fan shroud. i'v done it 3 times

Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:41 pm

so did you ever change the alternator? If its that easy for you to take your shroud out then do it. remove the 4 bolts holding the alternator backing plate to the shroud & pull the alternator & fan out as a whole. Take the damn thing to an auto store or shop that has either an air or electric impact gun. no need to hold the fan or anything & will come right off. & for anyone that hasn't had dual carbs, it does take at least an hour to drop the engine & if you have all the correct pieces for a doghouse might be even longer.

Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:15 pm

Glenn wrote: Because when you have dual carbs, remote oil filter and oil cooler. traction bar and other stuff, it's not like dropping a stock engine.

And a stock engine should take only 20 minutes to get out.

I can do my 40 horse in ten...... 8)

Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:40 pm

If I want to change the fan on my dual carb engine, can I just remove the 4 bolts on the backing plate and pull out the alternator & fan?

I've been thinking I might want a balanced and welded fan.

Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:18 pm

mikemck wrote: If I want to change the fan on my dual carb engine, can I just remove the 4 bolts on the backing plate and pull out the alternator & fan?

I've been thinking I might want a balanced and welded fan.

Not sure if you can get the fan out around the generator stand, but you can certainly get it out if you remove the fan nut before you take the alternator off the stand.

Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:24 pm

Art Thraen put steel inserts in the case so you can use bolts instead of studs. That way you can remove the 4 stand bolts and the 4 backing plate bolts and pull the alternator/stand/backing plate/fan out as a single unit.

It's a sweet mod.

Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:14 pm

I agree this is one nice and clever mod!

Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:45 am

That is a nice mod, but why not just remove the generator stand? If the strap and carb. have already been removed, aren't we just talking about the four nuts that hold the stand to the studs?

While on the same subject, is it this gen./alt. stand issue that has made several replies that deal with partially lifting the shroud?

I am particularly interested in this information as I am considering switching over to an alternator (presently running a gen.) and would like to do all of this without dropping the engine or wrestling with the fan shroud.

Thanks,
Rick