TheSamba.com :: View topic - Removing the alternator while engine is still in car

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:04 pm

Advokat wrote: That is a nice mod, but why not just remove the generator stand? If the strap and carb. have already been removed, aren't we just talking about the four nuts that hold the stand to the studs?

While on the same subject, is it this gen./alt. stand issue that has made several replies that deal with partially lifting the shroud?

I am particularly interested in this information as I am considering switching over to an alternator (presently running a gen.) and would like to do all of this without dropping the engine or wrestling with the fan shrod.

This mod makes it possible to remove the generator stand by moving it straight aft. With the studs you have to lift the stand upward to remove it.

Now, this mod is only useful for dual-carb buses. If you have a stock manifold the manifold is in the way so there is no point in making the mod.

For a stock engine, you can get the same effect by removing the fan nut and leaving the fan in the shroud and the stand in place. You can then tilt the generator so the backing plate clears the manifold. Both the fan and stand can be removed if desired once the generator is out. The tricky part is removing the lower two screws on the backing plate which are blocked by the manifold. When I install a generator I use hex head cap screws for these two locations, allowing them to be loosened with a 10mm box-end wrench.

The "partially lifting the shroud" approach works better for pre-doghouse engines. If you try to do it with a doghouse shroud you have to reach around and remove tin bits forward of the shroud, so it becomes easier to just remove the fan nut.

Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:50 pm

Ahhhhhhh...that pesky manifold. I get it now. That's what I get for not just getting off my behind and going out to look at my engine.

Thanks,
Rick

Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:40 pm

Boonies wrote: I did it by my self with some small blocks to hold up the shourd while i took out the alternator. Really not that hard at all. Just have every thing ready to come out when you loosen the shroud... and take off your carb.

And disconnect the thermostat under the engine, and unbolt the bolt around behind the shroud that attaches the exhaust duct for the oil cooler, and pull the throttle cable out of the tube, and be careful you don't damage the wiring loom that comes around the shroud.

When you're putting the shroud back down, be careful to get it in the right place relative to the cylinder tin. If you get the sheet metal on the wrong side it will jam the cooling flaps. You pretty much have to inspect this by feel forward of the shroud. Then you get the fun of reinstalling the oil cooler bits by feel as well.

Which is why I don't recommend lifting the shroud unless you have a non-doghouse engine without a thermostat. Even in that case I wouldn't lift the shroud. It's just too easy to remove the fan nut and pull the generator without the fan attached. You still have to feel around in front of the shroud, but at least you're feeling for big things, not little screw holes.

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Do you need the steel inserts to put the bolts in the case?Or is this just to be safe so you dont pull the threads out of the case.Or to keep the threads from getting hogged out from repeated use.

Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:57 pm

I did a half ass way once to remove the shroud. I unbolted the engine, jacked it up, slide it back lowered it slightly and tilted it forward (didn't remove the lower studs out of the tranny all the way) and TADA lots of access to everything. Also fastest I personally got down pulling a motor was in under 15 minutes...

this is my motor bay now so I dont have a problem taking off the shroud:

Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:38 am

Glenn wrote: It's a real B!TCH to get the fan shroud off with the engine in.

But you can remove the alternator and leave the shroud in... here's how.

Remove the wires, fan belt and half of the pulley. Reach around the front of the engine and put a 36mm socket with a 3" extension and a breaker bar on the fan nut. Use a large adjustable wrench in the remaining half of the pulley and crank the nut loose. Now remove the alternator strap and the 4 bolts holind thebacking plate to the fan shroud. Tilt the alternator so you can gain access to the 2 10mm nuts and remove them. now pull the alternator out.

To reinstall, just doeverything in reverse. Make sure the fan nut is tight or it might come loose. "It worked for me!" I had to replace my bosch lastnite and it took me about 3.5 hours to take out old and put in new! I'm sure it may only take others a shorter time but I took my time doing this because thats how I am.

Sun May 20, 2007 9:41 pm

Thermostat???? Air Flaps????? Those were removed YEARS ago! lol

I have a dual 40mm Kadron setup....I just remove the decklid and pull the alt. with the fan shroud attached...I have to do this to get access to the front two spark plugs anyway.....so, I've gotten really, really used to it....

My bit of advice....keep your original tin! I replaced the top cylinder tin a few years back and it's always been hard to fit back together...wish I still had the originals.....

Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:44 pm

loosen end screws on fan shroud , gen. strap,remove carb,wires,gen. pully,lift fan shroud as far up as allowed, remove gen. stand remove four screws holding backing plate to shroud pull out generator fan and all.
works for me everytime!!

Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:23 pm

fastcarloon wrote: loosen end screws on fan shroud , gen. strap,remove carb,wires,gen. pully,lift fan shroud as far up as allowed, remove gen. stand remove four screws holding backing plate to shroud pull out generator fan and all.
works for me everytime!!

Provided you don't have a doghouse shroud and the Hoover bit, duct, etc. :shock:

Be very careful about setting that shroud back down. If you get it in the wrong position relative to the cylinder tin you can jam the cooling flaps.

I find it easier and quicker to leave the shroud in place and use Glenn's method.

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:54 pm

GeorgeL wrote: I find it easier and quicker to leave the shroud in place and use Glenn's method.

Me too. It has worked every time for me.

Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:08 pm

to each their own 8)

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:37 pm

Took me 25 minutes to replace the alternator in my 74...last weekend. I'm getting good at this. 8)

Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:24 am

Yes - don't be afraid to try it. Just like Boonies said - ya gotta be a good wiggler, and use some wood blocks under the fan shroud to hold it, and jiggle and wiggle, and fuss and fume, and when you get it in just the right spot, that fan will clear the housing, and out she comes. Must take carb off. Must disconnect thermostat if installed. It's not as hard as you are thinking - I've done it many times, and each time with less swearing.

Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:06 pm

ed stanley wrote: Yes - don't be afraid to try it. Just like Boonies said - ya gotta be a good wiggler, and use some wood blocks under the fan shroud to hold it, and jiggle and wiggle, and fuss and fume, and when you get it in just the right spot, that fan will clear the housing, and out she comes.

I did it that way...once. Then someone showed me the "remove the fan nut first" method and I've done it that way since.

No jiggle, wiggle, fuss or fume, it just comes out.

No worries about getting the fan shroud back into its proper position, either.

I know that it's a bit of a religious argument, but lifting the shroud is a lot more work then removing one big nut by feel.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:08 pm

VWXTC4FREE wrote: Do you need the steel inserts to put the bolts in the case?Or is this just to be safe so you dont pull the threads out of the case.Or to keep the threads from getting hogged out from repeated use.

I had the same question. I have an aluminum case – I would think that would hold up all right, no?

Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:41 pm

Helicoil kits are cheap. I have an AL case and I will put inserts in so I will not have to ever think about it again. I will also give the fuel pump location the same treatment since I am running a rotary pump.

Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:38 am

i used glenn's idea last night, and it worked like a champ. i did not want to pull the engine out last night. his way looked like the best idea out there. good going, thanks glenn. i just hope my $98.00 55 amp (non bosch) from air head last a while. could not afford a true bosch at this time.
jd