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Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:58 pm

Has anyone fitted a replacement headliner from either Wolfsburg West or West Coast Classics?

How does the wool cloth material compare to OG?

Given that WCC/Lennys is $850 and the WWest one is $205.00 I'm interested in if the extra $630 is worth it?

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=241867499BG

Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:17 pm

a customer of mine that had a 55 deluxe had purchased the headliner from WW. i was hoping it would be close(as i will need one eventually).i wasnt impressed at all. the color seemed off and the texture was much less fuzzy,almost no fuzz at all.
im glad i got to see one before spending my own money for something i wouldnt be pleased with.
if not looking for exact,it would do fine but i prefer close as possible to original.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:07 am

what about Mark Lapriore's BD headlining
the 'rolls royce' of BD headlinings? very correct?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:11 pm

i had seen what Mark L has and it was much closer but i was still not convinced it was the proper color.of course you have to expect original samples have changed in color from age.
i have nice samples for myself of original materials that have never seen the elements/daylight/smokers. because i wasnt totally convinced with Marks, i had sent off all of my samples to a German supply company for matches for a last attempt .hopefully i will get something back in a week or so but i wont hold my breath for exact. if all else fails i may just go with what Mark L has. i trust alot of his opinions and research and he gets to verify what Lenny has for materials and if its correct or not.hes closer by,im on the other side of the country.

Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:27 pm

a few samples – which would you go for?

og 54 deluxe

53

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164856&highlight=head
related thread

Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:10 pm

my opinion based off of computer pictures,which really isnt accurate, would be that moleskin 322.
i liked what Mark had but i thought it was just a bit too grey in it.almost too close to the color of the panel vinyl. it would go nice together but im still convinced headliner was a tad lighter and almost a bit yellow/tan.
whats your opinion on that moleskin?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:05 pm

Those pics are really useful thanks!

I was loking at wollies and was thinking that the West of England cloth 'sounded' the better option, but looking at the samples the moleskin does look closer, I guess I'd have to see a sample.

I've managed to find a local upholsterer who's usual work is Bugattis and vintage racecars, so if I can afford it I'll get him to custom stitch a headliner for me.

RockStock: who are you using?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:08 pm

About two years ago I did quite a bit of research on barndoor headlining material. I have samples of all the US players as well as several from a German friend that restores oldtimer MB.

Nothing was dead on, due to the dye lots or thread weave.

Also, there is some discussion on the difference between early 51-53 and 54-55 headliner material.

Rockstock, I'm leaning toward the moleskin 322 as well, I'd really like to see that one in person.

Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:05 am

Damon 22, there is a trim supplies near you called 'boyriven' they supply boat builders etc. They have three shades of 'west of england' cloth the middle one being pretty close. Karl Sillet used this in his 54 deluxe. This not quite the correct material but it is a very close match to the colour.
Also you could ask Andy Carroll which cloth he used, i think both his and Karls headlining were installed by Bernard Newbury.
If you look at Rikki James og cloth there are two types of material, one for around the skylights one for the rest (just to confuse you more)
For what its worth i too think there are differences from early to late Barndoors,the earlier ones seem more of a moleskin the later more felt like.

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:38 am

Rusting Hulk wrote: Also you could ask Andy Carroll which cloth he used, i think both his and Karls headlining were installed by Bernard Newbury.

OI Simon!!! So his signiture is on their headliners! BULLOCKS!!!

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:56 am

Barndoor Mafia wrote: Rusting Hulk wrote: Also you could ask Andy Carroll which cloth he used, i think both his and Karls headlining were installed by Bernard Newbury.

OI Simon!!! So his signiture is on their headliners! BULLOCKS!!!

Andy's and Karls are the same cloth
if you pay more $$££ berny will not put his name onit :lol:

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:58 am

BeaterBarndoor wrote: whats your opinion on that moleskin?

looks/feels nice to me, but how correct i don't know. I’m not the person to ask
i need yourself/the other experts to give their opinion on the best match
I did think Mark Lapriore’s looked very grey too, but i hear Mark's headlinings contain all the right seams etc
some of the UK boys have done a fair amount of looking around

RH, which of the samples would you choose?

I could do with taking the samples I have along to a show, compare them more closely to og headlinings

Damon22 wrote: RockStock: who are you using?

don’t know! some way off yet…
i'll try to use a trimmer who is reasonably priced, who’ll listen to what I want (ie correct stitching etc), & shows willing to work with me
probably someone not directly in the VW business, & fairly local
it could well be whoever RH uses – that kid has a keen eye for detail & for sniffing out value for money!
i'll wait to see how his turns out;)

23 window collection wrote: Rockstock, I'm leaning toward the moleskin 322 as well, I'd really like to see that one in person.

PM or email me your address details doug, I’ll look to get a sample sent
would be good to get your opinion

these are the KHM samples which perhaps mimic the woven wool found around the skylights on 54/55 deluxes???

317 grey

316 beige

perhaps, for a 54/55, team 316 up with Moleskin 322 or the Himmel Service sample?

Karl and Andy's headlinings look top, too
its important the headlining compliments the interior panels

Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:56 pm

Barndoor Mafia wrote: Rusting Hulk wrote: Also you could ask Andy Carroll which cloth he used, i think both his and Karls headlining were installed by Bernard Newbury.

OI Simon!!! So his signiture is on their headliners! BULLOCKS!!!

Talking of bollox, bernard stitched his name into my boxers while i was wearing them, i can tell you i was sweating a bit when that needle got close.

More seriously i have to say at the moment i would go with the one Karl used, but i'm still looking. I think it was around £30 per metre off the roll, i'm told 10 metres is needed

Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:20 am

this the cloth that Karl and Andy used, a few of us agreed that this was a vey good match. Hard to tell in a picture. I did send a sample of this to Mark L, he liked it, but wasn't 100% convinced. I think the problem is we all have samples of OG cloth, both faded and unfaded but all from different years and probably from different manufactures at the time. So no one cloth will prove to be 100% correct

Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:26 am

Rusting Hulk wrote: .... I think the problem is we all have samples of OG cloth, both faded and unfaded but all from different years and probably from different manufactures at the time. So no one cloth will prove to be 100% correct

I'm down with that. Until someone finds some old VW literature about who manufacturered the cloth and what versions were applied we will not know for sure what it should look like with 100% certainty.

For a long time it was generally accepted that the assist straps were made from a different material than the headliners. This was misunderstood because the assist straps had all the soft fibers removed from years of handling which exposed the underlying weave....this presented a coarse grain weave that appeared to be a different material.

With this level of detail being given to the BD's and with the support of forums like this, we will narrow it down.

I am just happy to have the 70's pinhole vinyl headliner out of my bus!

To me, the headliner priorities, in order of priority, are:

1. Cut to the right pattern (if it is the "correct" material but cut in the wrong shape it will look wrong.
2. Texture and weight.
3. Color match.

I'd rather have material that meets all criteria and be a shade off on the color than the other way around.

Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:55 am

Anchovy wrote: For a long time it was generally accepted that the assist straps were made from a different material than the headliners. This was misunderstood because the assist straps had all the soft fibers removed from years of handling which exposed the underlying weave....this presented a coarse grain weave that appeared to be a different material

sounds like a nice excuse to use a pic of the grab handle from RJs 54 dlx..

Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:51 am

RockStock,

That photo is a good example of the assist strap. You can see that the top portion still has a lot of "fuzz" while the business end has worn down to the base fabric.

I also notice that the yellow "pine tree" air freshener is not original. Everyone knows that BD's came with green "pine trees" from the factory.

Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:15 pm

back to the original topic, i just got my samples i sent for on all my needs to do my 54.i was pleased to see what i got. the headliner material is labeled as West of England broadcloth .i got 2 sample colors closest to my original supplied .i will be going with the lighter of the 2 which is almost dead on to my original .it is a little bit thicker than original which may effect how things are sewn up around the windows but i think it should work.i am also happy with the "fuzzy" content with it. thats what i have to offer.im going with what i found if that helps anyone...

i tried to get my scanner to work but it doesnt like the computer im using.ill see if my camera will work and get a fairly acurate photo.

Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:24 pm

ok, heres what i have...1st photo is with flash,2nd without. center material is my original that has never seen outside elements.

Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:11 pm

The lighter material will likely darken a bit with time. It looks like a nice choice.

Do you have a way to measure the thickness of the original and the replacement. How different is the thickness. Does the replacement have a bias? (By this I mean does it stretch in one direction and not another?