TheSamba.com :: View topic - Suspension Questions or Ideas for a 69 Baja.

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:41 pm

Basically I'm new to the Baja world, but no stranger to VW's. I picked up Desert Bob's 69 Baja last week for an excellent deal, and I wanted to get some ideas for suspension. I know little to nothing about offroad suspension, so any ideas you guys have would be most helpful. Basically it's a 69 Baja with a body lift, virtually stock suspension but on the plus side a bus 002 tranny. Just got back from Stoddard Wells today and the car kicked my butt. Shocks are shot, but beyond that I wouldn't know where to begin. This car is a toy I plan to beat up, but I would like to enjoy it get as much of a smooth ride as I can. Looks aren't important to me, but the suspension is. I don't mind spending some cash, but at the same time I don't want to break the bank so some budget ideas would be appreciated. My roomates and I have welders, cutters and grinders so minor fab work is not a problem. If someone could just point me in the right direction with some details, it would be GREATLY appreciated.

thanks guys!!

Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:17 pm

If you want to keep it mostly stock I would suggest new front and rear torsion bars, and maybe slightly stiffer sway away`s for the rear. New shocks all around, KYB for starters and if you can, fab some mounts and throw in some suspension seats, PRP, Beard or the like. Also, if its Balljoint, I think 69 is, install some limiting straps so you dont end up bending your long tie rod on the downward travel, like I did... :wink:

Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:50 pm

Here is what I would do on a smaller budget. First, I would establish the rear suspension setup. It is very common to notch the spring plates slightly to gain some added travel. I would check for that, and if it has not been done that would be a cheap addition. Next, I would take a look at how the car sits at ride height. From the picture it looks at though the rear torsion bars are cranked up quit a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if the car was riding on the stops. That would be 99% of your harsh ride right there, and again it would be a simple and cheap fix to rectify.

Up front I would check to see how the front was lifted. Does it have adjusters? Does it have lift spindles? Was the beam cut and turned.

After checking all the mechanical gremlins that somebody might have "adjusted into the car", I would move on from there. First and probably the most important thing would be to address the steering as Nicksan mentioned. From there I would consider shocks and possibly torsion bars, in that order. You "should" be able to dial in a decent ride fairly inexpensively. It is when you get the itch to go faster is when the budget starts to get bent out of shape...haha

Hope that helps
SHMO

Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:56 pm

The front beam is adjustable and looks to be cranked too far up (or down). You can see the angle on the Ball joints. As for the rear I have no idea where they're at. I tried to take some more detailed pictures. Do I need a certain tool to adjust the rear torsion bars or notch the spring plate? Whatever little adjustments you think will work I will do. As far as shocks go, what would you recomend? I just saw these in the classifieds, wondering if this is what you'd recomend.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=353026

I was actually thinking about going the extra mile with a wider beam, spindles, shock towers etc, but I'm not sure I'd get in over my head. Also SHMO i read in another thread you talking about running 2x3 bus trailing arms on the rear and it will allow you to run stock Bus axels? Is this correct? How would the rear shocks mount? Do you have to change the torsion bars?

Sorry for the newbie question, but I'm really trying over here. :lol:

Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:38 am

I would recommend staying away from those kind of coilovers unless they are temporary. I had some on the rear and they were a very hard ride. I used them a while and had to remove them, It was like I had no rear suspension, even on the softest setting.

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:41 pm

i have a set that i'll GIVE ya. one has blown the oil out of it but it doesn't matter, ita still stiff as a preacher :lol:

Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:35 pm

ok so no go on the Empi shocks. I figured cause they looked a little cheap. Any other suggestions on adjusting?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:44 pm

i have KYB Gas-Adjust shocks that i think that they are great.

Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:44 pm

In the rear of your car the suspension looks to be very close to fully extened at ride height. This picture was taken with the car on the ground, correct? You can look where I highlighted your picture and it should become apparent where the stop will limit the movement of the spring plate. "IF" the suspension is more or less fully extended at ride height, your ride will be very choppy. Ideally you want at least a couple inches of droop factored in, meaning that the suspension will be able to extend away from the car a couple inches more when you encounter a bum or dip in the road. The way it is set up now offers no (or at least very little) downward movement of the suspension, hence giving you a very choppy ride. Without getting into a LOOOONG explaination about how to set up and dial in a suspension, let me just say that backing off the torsion bars (maybe 1 spline) and lowering the car slightly will usually help to achieve a better, smoother ride. Most guys set their cars up like yours solely for the looks and do not give the suspensions performance any consideration. Personally I would remove and re-index the rear torsion bars (1-spline) so that you have a little room between the torsion bar and the spring plates. You can also clearance the spring plate about 1/4inch right where it meets the stop. This will gain you a slight amount of travel. I would NOT clearance more than 1/4 inch while using stock Type I CV joints. Check before you start. The picture you gave us looks like the spring plates "might" be clearanced already. Once you have the rear of the car setup a little better, the ride should greatly improve. At that time I would address the beam adjusters on the front of your car, and simply level out the car based on appearance. After you are done, giving up about an inch or two of ride height will more than likely make a dramatic improvement in the suspension performance.

Regarding the shocks, I WOULD NOT install or use the inexpensive coilover shocks. Personally I would stay away from KYB's as well, unless you are on a tight budget. If you can afford it and don't mind investing some money into performance, take a look at purchasing a class 11 shock made by Bilstein or Fox. They will give you a far better ride and a greatly improved performance from the suspension. They are valved and designed specifically for your vehicle in an offroad application.

As for trailing arms you cannot, well let me say SHOULD NOT, consider the use of factory bus arms or torsion housing. You can however use aftermarket trailing arms, either 2.5x2.5 or 2x3's with Bus axles and CV joints. You will also need to use the appropriate stubs axles, either modified typeI, Thing (181) or Porsche 924/944. With the larger trailing arms the wheelbase and track width will be greatly increased. You will also increase the suspension travel considerably, therfore custom shock mounts and shocks will need to be installed. With the added leverage placed upon the new trailing arms, larger torsion bars will need to be added. This is a fairly involved project and you could expect to pay between 1000-2000 dollars to do it. There is also the option of using 3x3 or larger trailing arms, requiring custom axles and the use of Porsche 930 CV joints. The cost of this setup is of course will add a few hundred dollars to the price. The extended front beam is a little less involved, but again does require some work and expense to achieve. I would say the front of a car could be done for as little as $200 or for as much as $2,000. Let us know where your budget is and what you expect from that car and we can go from there with suggestions.

SHMO

Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:27 pm

Wow, I learned more in that paragraph than in any Baja Book I've looked through. Thank you sooo much for all the info, and not treating me like a fool. I know my questions may seem petty to most of you, and other forums pride themselves on putting the less knowledgeable down, but here I can't say enough about how nice and helpful everyone is. I'm going downstairs to crank on the baja a little before it gets too late. Right now I want to try to keep my budget between $1000-1500 to Dial in the suspension as much as I can. I put on VW car shows/Drag Races with my father out here on the West Coast, and places EMPI, CB, KYMCO etc are all big sponsors. So hopefully I can get a deal on any parts I need to order.

THANK YOU everyone for your help and keep the suggestions coming!

Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:50 pm

after reading this thread all i have to say is shmo you should write a book! :shock:

Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:12 pm

So you are Kimball's kid...with his connections you should be able to get some DEALS on the parts you will need.

Also there is few Off Roaders from OC in DSSK. So check us out !!

http://www.dsskvwclub.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=a6878ade924918aae78b9e3043093199

Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:14 pm

Chris Galvin wrote: So you are Kimball's kid...with his connections you should be able to get some DEALS on the parts you will need.

Also there is few Off Roaders from OC in DSSK. So check us out !!

http://www.dsskvwclub.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=a6878ade924918aae78b9e3043093199

yeah thats me. I'm hoping I can get this car up to specs in time to enjoy it this season. I'd love to meet up with some Baja people here in OC. My friend and I both have Bajas and have been spending the last few weeks tearing them apart. He just picked up the blue 69 for $100 to swap over the IRS to his 66.

Our garage

Me and my buddies Baja out at Stoddard Saturday.

Tomorrow i plan to lower the torsion and possibly get some new shocks for it.. :D

Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:35 pm

:shock: Those are some ugly, mean looking bajas! Good job getting them out where they belong!