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Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:26 am

Anchovy wrote: 49barndoor wrote: Thats one hell of an early motor :shock: , mines from Nov 50 and is 20-0253527 :wink:

The font style of "20-0174..." looks much different than later BD's. Notice how the zeros are elongated on later motors and very round on the motor in question. 49barndoor, do you have photos of your engine number to compare? At first glance the number looks like a modern stamping. It is hard to tell from the photo, but it also seems to be missing the dash in front of the "20" that we find on all BD motors.

Not too sure if mine is a restamp also as most of the ancillaries are 36hp.
What you recon?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:38 am

i reckon both of these are og 25hp bus engines, just updated

who would restamp them with bus numbers? especially early bus numbers? its not like the engines have been redone to show condition

Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:38 am

I am not sure about Europe, but a lot of early cars were actually titled to the engine number, not the chassis number. If you had your engine case replaced, it would be a must to restamp with your original number...

Quote: It's in my garage now, should I give it a good cleaning, you think?

Heck yeah! It's a keeper no matter where the numbers came from.

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:24 am

BUCIOBATISTI wrote: Another detail that might be something some of you guys don't know that I learned a couple years back is that there are more than one crankstart breast tin. There is a 25hp version and a 36hp version. The difference is that the 25hp style has a actual *hole* for the downpipe from the oil filler and the 36hp has a *"U-shaped" Cutout* for the oil filler. Just another tidbit of information to pack away about early Bus engines.
Good info.

More:
The tin with the hole for the downpipe extends into 36hp production.

I have a Beetle engine from November, 1954, engine # 1-0914663, and it still has the "25hp" style breast plate.

I believe my January, 1955 Barndoor Kombi engine (the original) also had this breast plate but cannot remember with 100% certainty.

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:27 am

This is how it looks on my 50 engine.

-Tonny

Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:35 am

janerick3 wrote: By the way, the red plug wires are original Bosch up to around 1955.

do you know an approximate month in 55, janerick3? bit garish compared to the black, aren't they

Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:44 am

Post-cleaning update:
I was too curious to let i t be, so I carefully cleaned off the enigine (just a preliminary cleaning!).
I will try to mail the pics later to those who have helped so far with ID, to get it posted.
Anyway, what I found was a small "Austausch" (replacement) stamp. On the side of the generator stand there is an additional number. I guess this makes it an April -54 engine?
Then the question is: how did VW do this, would it be brand new then, or would it be an older, overhauled engine with a new number? And what are the numbers on the left side (inside) the generator stand?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:22 am

House wrote: I am not sure about Europe, but a lot of early cars were actually titled to the engine number, not the chassis number. If you had your engine case replaced, it would be a must to restamp with your original number...

Quote: It's in my garage now, should I give it a good cleaning, you think?

Heck yeah! It's a keeper no matter where the numbers came from.

My December 1953 Panel was originally registered to the engine number. When I reregistered it back in about 2000, that engine was long gone so I had to provide production evidence to a DMV certified registration specialist and have a VIN verification and I got a new title with the chassis number on the new title to avoid any potential confusion later on.

Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:16 pm

Anyone seen the "D" next to the vertical number before? Could this be a former Type 1 engine? And what about the "3 6 22" figures on the left side?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:19 pm

From the info. provided in this thread and other observations it looks like restamps are easy to identify (even if the font is the same).

All the original motors have stamps made directly on the rough casting of the case while the re-stamps look like the case has been ground or machined to remove the old stamp. 49barndoor, it looks like your stamp is a re-do, and Tonny's is original. If you are going for an authentic look you should roughen up the stamping area so it looks like the rough casting and then use the VW font for the stamp. Don't forget the dash in front of the 20.

Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:46 pm

RockStock wrote:

I see it has the remains of a late52-54 truck air cleaner, note the 3 piece assembly.

Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:55 pm

BUCIOBATISTI wrote: Another detail that might be something some of you guys don't know that I learned a couple years back is that there are more than one crankstart breast tin. There is a 25hp version and a 36hp version. The difference is that the 25hp style has a actual *hole* for the downpipe from the oil filler and the 36hp has a *"U-shaped" Cutout* for the oil filler. Just another tidbit of information to pack away about early Bus engines.

and there are quite a few different tins (variations) that go behind the crank pulley as well, to match the different crankstart tins.

Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:01 pm

67pickup wrote: Anyone seen the "D" next to the vertical number before? Could this be a former Type 1 engine? And what about the "3 6 22" figures on the left side?

Looks like there may be a faint K in front of the D.

Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:59 pm

Anchovy wrote:

Looks like there may be a faint K in front of the D.

Yes, a very faint K.....
If it is a KD, then its a factory rebuild.

Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:38 pm

Thanks for the info! New questions come up here. It seems the K is there, I didn´t notice it at first. Wery weak, anyway. Do you know what it means? Is it the factory initials, where it was rebuilt? Would be thankful for any info on the other numbers as well - both the vertical (with no 20- number) and what the left hand side figures mean. If we guess that it´s rebuilt some time in the fifties, is there any way to distinguish it as a T1 or T2? Or were they all the same?

Please forgive me for asking all these questions, btw. :wink:

Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:51 pm

I have a letter from Volkswagen Australia, and it says the KD engines are exchange engines from Germany, and KDA engines are exchange engines from Australia. I do not know if there were other letters for other countries.

Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:20 pm

one more pics for reference....

Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:03 pm

The "3-6-22" on the generator stand indicates the right half of the crankcase was probably cast on 3 June 1952 (second shift?). The casting date for the left half is located between the oil and fuel pumps. If the case itself is remanufactured, the dates of the two halves may not be close to one another. The left half appears to be shinier than the right half in places, which suggests it may be cast from aluminum "remelt" alloy, while the right half is cast from magnesium "elektron" alloy.

"KD" stands for Kunendienst ("exchange service").

"Austausch" translates into "factory rebuilt."

I have seen both red and black enameled Bosch ignition wires. My Jan '55 engine has the red wires; the black wires were on a '52 Porsche engine. I believe Beru wires from the same era were black rubber, as they do not harden like the later og wires.

Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:37 pm

For comparison, here is a "KD" Porsche 1500 S restamp from the Gallery:

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/276317.jpg

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:15 am

Great, thanks for that! :D The casting date makes sense, I didn´t think of that!
Still there seems to be a mix between Type 1 og Type 2 number series in relation to "standard" deliveries with new cars. The number on the front side is an "incomplete Pre-official series" Barndoor number, and the vertical is a Type 1 number for april -54. To my knowledge it was taken out of "an old bus" that got a newer, bigger engine some time. Maybe there wasn´t made any distinction to engines for type 1s and 2s, or at the time of change this was what the VW workshop in question could deliver.

If the right hand side of the case was made in on June 3rd -52, there´s one more thing for me to check today, I´ll have to check again to find the other case mark. Will get right to work! Thanks so far for all the help!

(Kunden = Customer and Dienst = Service and Austausch = Exchange, probably what you meant, anyway :D )