TheSamba.com :: View topic - Replacing Convertible Support Rails Explained

Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:22 am

THANKS, Scott! :D

Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:07 am

Scott Faivre wrote: I'd say for only $1200 you did just fine! :D

When I replaced the convertible support rails on my car, I had to redrill some of the body mount holes, because the support rail holes were slightly off. Now that could be a result of my pans being replaced once before. (I can't tell for sure, but they might have been done by a previous owner.)

Is that the same issue that you are having?

Scott Faivre

Sorry so long to reply - just got the pics of the areas of concern on the vert.

I am not sure, all I can tell is that the pan's holes partially or mostly cover the holes with the threads. I don't see the rail at all through the holes except on a couple of em.
But by the way the holes are covered, I am thinking the body is off to the passenger side by just enough to cause a big problem on the driver's side. The PO did manage to put a few into that side somehow. There are a total of 9 missing on the whole bug. (4 d/r & 5 p/s) If I wanted to I could probably fit maybe 3 more into the passenger side if I cut a 1/16th of an inch or less around the side of the hole in the pan to wallow it out to get the bolt in there - but looks like the drivers side is gonna force me to remove the body. Because it would be too dangerous in my opinion to drive it that way for the wife, no? :shock:

Here are the pics of the areas of concern prior to lifting the body. A friend of mine told me there shouldn't be a problem because of the extra supports built into the later models.

The photographer was fired shortly after this shot

The photographer hired to replace the previous photographer who was fired was fired shortly after this shot

Looks good to me. If there is any rust I can't find it - whadda ya'll think?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:29 am

I'd take a scratch all and mark the areas that the holes need to be elongated out to. Then I'd take the body off of the pan and use a die grinder to open them up a bit. This will allow you to see if the previous owner got the body seal installed correctly (some call it a belly pan seal).

Also if you need to shim the body for proper door gap alignment, you'll have access to the area above the beam and the rear suspension.

Hope this helps!
Scott Faivre

Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:33 am

Hey Scott, looking at your pictures, when you were adjusting the door gap with your threaded bit, were you simply trying to make the top and bottom of the door opening the same distance apart or were the adjustments based on previous measurements?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:35 am

We took measurements while the doors were still on the body and the body was still on the pan. My gaps at the top of the passenger side door were nearly a 1/4" wider than on the bottom. The driver side was off too, but not as excessive. My mentor constantly speaks of metal's "memory" and taught me that if you put the right amount of tension on the metal piece or panel that you're working on, you can then tap it with a large rubber mallet, and the metal will attempt to return to it's original shape.

We did this exact practice before welding on the heavy duty convertible support rails. If we would have welded those on before, the body wouldn't "release" any tweaks back to it's "memory" state.

You know that your door is "square" (90* Angles) so technically so should your door opening. BUT... You'll need to slightly over pull the body back together due to that "memory" effect. If you need a 1/8" pull you might have to pull it 1/2" in order for it to be 1/8" when there is no pressure on the body.

I hope this helped. Shoot me an email if you need anything else.

Scott Faivre

Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:26 am

Scott Faivre wrote: ...see if the previous owner got the body seal installed correctly (some call it a belly pan seal).

Also if you need to shim the body for proper door gap alignment, you'll have access to the area above the beam and the rear suspension.

Not sure I completely understand. The doors shut perfectly at this point, sorry I'm a noob, but will helped by more experienced people. I want to be sure I know what needs to take place, thanks for all your help.

Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:06 pm

There is a rubber seal that goes between the pan and the body. Sometimes guys get cheap and reuse the old one, or don't use it all together.

You'll need to check your door gaps again once the body is fully bolted down to the pan. I'd install new rubber shims too.

These are only $4.95 @ CIP1.com. http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C16%2D111%2D123A

There are some ones available for the rear from Wolfsburg West too.
www.wolfsburgwest.com

Scott Faivre

Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:23 pm

keifernet wrote: I removed the body from the pan and turned the body upside down to do my job. I tried welding upside down and it is possible but difficult and dangerous. Once I flipped the bug it was pretty simple and the welds came out nicer.

:?: What do you think about flipping the convertible body upside down to replace the support rails?

Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:40 pm

Do you have a rotisery? Verts weigh more than their sedan cousins, and I'd be concerned with the weight of the body resting on itself in a way that it wasn't designed too.

With a rotisery, you can flip it back over to see how the weight hangs on itself for the fitting of the alignment of door gaps.

For mine, we just clamped the heck out of everything and then just welded on it right side up.

Scott Faivre

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:17 pm

Here is a picture of a set of braces that I bought from a company called BUGSTUFF in West Brownsville, Pennsylvania. (BUGSTUFF can be contacted at (724) 785-7000 or BUGSTUFFVW@VERIZON.NET.) The braces mount in the existing locations where the door hinges and the striker plate mount so that no welding is required.

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:27 pm

Those are nice braces! They mount like mine do, on the hinge and striker location. Although these go a step further and tie in a third point on the lower hinge. NICE!

What did they cost you?

Scott Faivre

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:20 pm

Scott Faivre wrote: What did they cost you?
They were $79.99 plus $9.99 shipping (freight).

Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:37 pm

Not bad at all! I wonder how much time and cost would have gone into mine, if I didn't have 2 buddies help me out on getting the materials and shaping of the parts. I'd bet it would easily be just shy of that $80 you paid. Very nice to know.

I've bought from Bugstuff before at shows when I used to live back east. Do they have a website now?

Scott Faivre

Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:02 am

Scott Faivre wrote: I've bought from Bugstuff before at shows when I used to live back east. Do they have a website now?
Nope. I had to call them.

Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:54 pm

Bugs'n'Pugs wrote: keifernet wrote: I removed the body from the pan and turned the body upside down to do my job. I tried welding upside down and it is possible but difficult and dangerous. Once I flipped the bug it was pretty simple and the welds came out nicer.

:?: What do you think about flipping the convertible body upside down to replace the support rails?

Actually it did not hurt that body one bit... BUT... I was only doing patch repairs to areas of the lower heater channels etc which were for the most part very solid and then welded on the new support rails.

I would not try it if you need to cut out the heater channels.

Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:12 am

Has anyone ever tried using one of the contraptions pictured below?

Would this be a better way to support the body than a rotisserie?

Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:33 am

Bugs'n'Pugs wrote: Has anyone ever tried using one of the contraptions pictured below?

Would this be a better way to support the body than a rotisserie?

Better in what way? As long as the body is supported and the alignment is not lost, then it doesn't matter what method is used.

Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:32 pm

Would ^^^this^^^ do a better job than a rotisserie of supporting the body so that the alignment of the body panels is not affected?

Does a rotisserie attach to the pan of a Volkswagen Beetle / Super Beetle?

Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:36 pm

Bugs'n'Pugs wrote: Would ^^^this^^^ do a better job than a rotisserie of supporting the body so that the alignment of the body panels is not affected?

Does a rotisserie attach to the pan of a Volkswagen Beetle / Super Beetle?

How is it that you turn everything simple into something complex? Provided the body is supported properly so as not to lose alignment, either works.

Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:46 am

I have a question. Can this be done with the body on the pan?

I didn't know what those support rails looked like until about a week ago. I just finished three months of work on my 'vert and just got it back together. I would hate to have to undo all (or a lot of) my work to replace these, which a PO removed when replacing the floor pans.

OK, stupid question.