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Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:25 pm

I want to run MSD distributor, ignition module, and coil in my 2110. Has anyone had any good results from this combination. Thanks.

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:26 pm

Why do you want to run a MSD?

Why did you pick that instead of a Mallory or some other ignition?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:50 pm

Glenn wrote: Why do you want to run a MSD?

Why did you pick that instead of a Mallory or some other ignition?

I am trying to find the best combination other than Bosch.

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:52 pm

What are you looking for?

Rev limiter?
Two Step?

Is it a street car or a drag car?

What heads and compression?

What fuel?

What's wrong with Bosch?

What about a Mallory?

The MSD is used by a lot of people. I believe that many use it because it looks cool.

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:07 pm

i think bosch with good coil and ignition mod. should be good enough, for the flat four, a lot of people say that the msd set up on v-dubs look good
but for the most part are over-kill, i see the msd dis/box on drag hemi v8s pushing 800 hp, to see the same set up on the bugs is, well you be the judge, imitation is the greatest form of flatery

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:19 pm

I have to disagree.

The advantages to the MSD/ mallory CDI boxes are real, including HP gains, and better running, better economy.

The mallory distributor also offers anvantges in the the sprak curve can be adjusted and the timing is more accurate.

Can you get more hp per $ with other mods, yes.

But I still feel like the CDi setup are well worth the money.

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:24 pm

jamestwo wrote: But I still feel like the CDi setup are well worth the money.

I agree that a CDI will give a performance increase, but do you really need all the bells and whistles that the MSD has.

I run a Bosch 010 with a Berg CDI box with a cost around $250. The best bang for the buck i've found.

If you want slick and different, take a look at this:
http://www.123ignition.nl/id/19.html
http://www.123ignition.nl/downloads/manuals/123VW.pdf

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:56 pm

Yes, actually i do like the features of my mallory digtal VI.

I use the rev limiter, the two step rev limiter, the tack test, the start retard, and there is a function where you can retard the timing for NOS. etc. i was thinking of using this function with a vacuum switch to retard timing under heavy load, or hook it to a rpm window switch and use it as a high speed retard.

The boxes are only around 230 bucks. I ran it several years with an ordinary 009.

The MSD distrubutor must be used with a MSD CDI, so that is a little different. The mallory pieces will work with each other or most other set ups.

Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:29 pm

my last on this.... the cdi systems do offer greater tuning ability, and advance options. I guess i would use bosch standard setups for just plug and play, no power adders, and my shift light to control over rev.

Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:19 am

Glenn wrote: jamestwo wrote: But I still feel like the CDi setup are well worth the money.

I agree that a CDI will give a performance increase, but do you really need all the bells and whistles that the MSD has.

I run a Bosch 010 with a Berg CDI box with a cost around $250. The best bang for the buck i've found.

If you want slick and different, take a look at this:
http://www.123ignition.nl/id/19.html
http://www.123ignition.nl/downloads/manuals/123VW.pdf

interesting setup that glenn, i cant get the pdf to work, but it seems to hint you can adjuct somthing to get the advance curve of stock bosch dizzys, so can you get a 010 curve and vacuum out of this one?

keith :D

Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:03 am

I am feeling that no one has a problem with the MSD setup. I think the biggest argument is the cost and maybe a few features you might not need. Correct?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:17 am

Yes... more than you need for a street driver. So if you have extra money you don't need go ahead. But if you have other things to spend it on, there's nothing wrong with a Bosch.

Personally if I were buying a high price ignition, i'd go with the Mallory.

Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:21 am

krusher wrote: interesting setup that glenn, i cant get the pdf to work, but it seems to hint you can adjuct somthing to get the advance curve of stock bosch dizzys, so can you get a 010 curve and vacuum out of this one?

keith :D

Here's a bit from the PDF. You can change the advance by a simple turn of the micro switch. Pretty cool.

It's inderesting that they have the 383 25hp curve but not the 010 curve.

Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:57 am

Glenn wrote: Yes... more than you need for a street driver. So if you have extra money you don't need go ahead. But if you have other things to spend it on, there's nothing wrong with a Bosch.

Personally if I were buying a high price ignition, i'd go with the Mallory.

What CDI would you choose to run with the Mallory? What is the difference in the Mallory DP or SP. Thanks.

Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:01 am

Glenn, what is the difference between Bosch 009 and 010. Thanks.

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:52 am

Need to decide what you want.

A CDI is a Capacitive Discharge Ignition. Simply put, they are an amplifier. 12 volts goes in, and roughly 500 volts comes out depending on the manufacturer. What this means, is that instead of 12 volts trying to saturate the ignition coil between firing, you now have roughly 500 volts saturating it between firings. This results in a much hotter spark throughout the rpm range. Just about all CDI manufacturers have multiple sparks up until around 3000-3500 rpms. MSD markets this the most, mosty through thier name "multiple spark discharge". They advertise in such a way that it makes them sound like they're the only game in town that has this. Well, don't buy it, they ALL have it.

So, from there, besides manufacturers, you have two different kinds of CDI's to choose from. Digital and Analog. Mallory is digital which means it is all solid-state and processes incredibly fast. MSD is usually analog unless you put out more coin to get the digital lineup. Other than this, there isn't a whole lot of difference between CDI's when it comes to spark power.

Next is features. What kind of features do you want? A CDI allows you to have features that just aren't going to happen with convential kettering ignition systems. Main rev limiters, 2 step limiters, hard start retards, powered activation between certain rpms, etc, etc. You can buy base model CDI's with no bells and whistles for just over $100. These units have the same spark as the more expensive CDI's do so don't think you'll get more power from the expensive ones. IMHO, I would at the very least get one with an adjustable rev limiter. If you need anything more than that, that's up to you.

So what does it come down to? Usually it's between MSD and Mallory. MSD puts a lot more into advertising so you hear about that one more. But here's the big differences.

Unless you shell out the coin, MSD is analog. Old school technology. Mallory is fully digital for less money.

So lets say you want to decide between a pair of CDI's that have the rev limiters and other features you may want. Okay, lets compare the MSD 6AL adn the Mallory Hyfire VI:

MSD requires "pills" to select which rpm you want a rev limiter at. Each "pill" costs about $5 and come in 200rpm increments. That's a lot of money to shell out. Plus, if you want to change the RPM limit, you have to have the "pills" on you or no dice. The Mallory being full digital has touch pad control for everything so the different rev limiters are built right in. You can set your rev limiter from 1000rpm all the way to 10000 rpm in 100 rpm increments with the push of a button. That's built right into the box, no extra expense. To have that kind of selection with the MSD, you'd need hundreds of dollars worth of "pills".

Two step limiter on the Mallory is built in and is adjustable just like the main rpm is. Pushbutton control in 100 rpm increments. With an MSD CDI, you need to buy a seperate box to plug those "pills" into to select the two step limiter. Another expense $$

The MSD provides about 460-480 volts to the ignition coil. The Mallory provides 530 volts to the coil. Combined with being digital, which one do you think provides the hotter spark?

Plus on top of that, the Mallory provides activated windows (like if you wanted to run NOS), boost sensitive ignition retard if you're running boost, start retard, etc, etc. All timing adjustments are done down to 1/10th of a degree as well. It is VERY precise.

The price difference? About $10 more for the Mallory CDI. Now, MSD does have a digital 6 series avaliable. But it cost about $70 more than the Mallory, doesn't have all the extra features that the Mallory has, and adjusting it is done with a small screwdriver to turn knobs. No digital display to tell you exactly where you are with your settings.

Now, are you looking at distributors? These won't do anything to improve spark. The only gain is you can taylor the advance curve of the distributor to fit your needs. But here are the differences if you like on them:
Both MSD and Mallory are billet aluminum bodied distributors. Good looking units for sure.

The Mallory distributors can be run with or without a CDI unit. They are what you call "stand alone". MSD distributors cannot be run without a CDI box. If the CDI box craps out on you, you're walking home. Mallory will still run with a burned out box.

Mallory distributors run a stock style plug wire. You can run any VW style plug wire with it. Readily avaliable at any auto parts store. MSD distributor needs MSD wires to run with it. You're stuck with thier wires. No quick trip to the auto parts store to pick some up.

Mallory distributors are avaliable with vacuum advance on them. This is great for street cars that favor having some advance controlled by engine load. Mileage and driveability are improved. MSD does not have this option.

Both MSD and Mallory distributors/CDI's are interchangeable. You can run one with the other just fine.

I decided to go full Mallory on my drag car for obvious reasons.

Just bought a another drag car that came with a full MSD system. To change the RPM's to what I need with my motor i'm looking at over $100 for what I need. I may as well spend another $150 and just get another Mallory for this car and save the headache. I'm not really impressed with this MSD system at all compared to my Mallory. External control boxes everywhere, what a mess. And the adjustability just isn't there at all.

I own both right now, and pick Mallory hands down.

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:57 am

YOU DAH MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:03 am

I think Glenn and me are thinking differently. If you just have a mild engine, or drive mostly on the street, the Bosch is all you ever need.

But if you drag race a lot, run N20, or turbo, or just enjoy having the best, the Mallory distributor and Hyfire VI for you.

Glenn wrote: Yes... more than you need for a street driver. So if you have extra money you don't need go ahead. But if you have other things to spend it on, there's nothing wrong with a Bosch.

Personally if I were buying a high price ignition, i'd go with the Mallory.

Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:00 pm

Vulcan wrote: Glenn, what is the difference between Bosch 009 and 010. Thanks.

009 has 20 degrees at 3500rpm. 010 had 20 degrees at 2500rpm. Also the 009s have some serious quality control issues.

Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:17 pm

Possible Sticky for this thread?