TheSamba.com :: View topic - "What wheels fit?" The ultimate wheel post.

Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:31 pm

An incredible amount of information in this thread and part I. Thanks to all participants for the data.

I am considering a well-priced set of MB E-series 17x8 Sport wheels. (8J 112 ET38). From reading through the thread and looking at the chart at the brick-yard link, it appears that I am entering potential nightmare territory with this particular size.

Anyone have experience with this wheel?

Also, as far as the question of load ratings goes- let me know if my logic is flawed, but if a 4,500 lb. E-class Benz is doing 135 mph on the Autobahn, won't the loads imposed by cornering and braking far exceed most of the loads that could be applied to the same wheel/tire combination on one of our 4,900 lb Vanagons at their top speeds of 75-ish? Short of out-and-out abuse, I don't see much potential for wheel or tire failure due to using a "car" tire on a Vanagon (within reason). I know that the center of gravity is much higher on the Vanagon than it is on the Benz, or any other passenger car, but I doubt that it is high enough to push the forces outside of the performance parameters of most decent tires.

Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:22 pm

Not Hip wrote:

I am considering a well-priced set of MB E-series 17x8 Sport wheels. (8J 112 ET38). From reading through the thread and looking at the chart at the brick-yard link, it appears that I am entering potential nightmare territory with this particular size.

Anyone have experience with this wheel?

No hands on experience with that particular wheel, but 17x8s fit fine.

I would run a 8-10mm spacer in the front and a 10-12mm spacer in the rear.

Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:02 pm

Sorry, math time -

If I understand how this all works, then an 8" (approx. 200mm) wide wheel with an offset of 38mm positions its inside bead 138mm ([200/2]+38 ) inboard of the mounting surface of the wheel. The OE 15x6 (approx. 150 mm wide) wheel with ET30 has the inside bead at 105mm ([150/2]+30 ).

If I use a spacer of 10mm, I end up with the inner bead at 128mm, 23mm further inboard than the OE wheels (I really wish I could whip up a digram for this). Will scrub be an issue? I can rotate tires due to the symmetry of the wheels front to rear so that's not a concern, but 225/55/17 tires aren't cheap for anything worth owning. I'm not anxious to replace them any more often than is necessary.

Will this installation require bump stop modifications?

Also, if I want to switch back to the studded snows for winter driving which are on stock 14x6 wheels will I need to do anything other than locate hollow 14x1.5 26mm ball-seat lug nuts for the rears? Obviously I can retain the stock bolts for the fronts and remove the spacers, but should I run the rear snows with the spacers on the longer studs? I don't want to have to press in rear studs twice a year.

If I were smart, I would buy a POS car for the winter and not expose my(new to me) decent Oregon '86 GL to a New England winter, but that's not an option at this point.

I know, I know, I know...if I don't spend the money on the Benz wheels, tires to go on them, spacers to make it work, and new fasteners, then I'd have enough for a beater Audi 5000 Avant Quattro, right? No matter how I slice it, I'm looking at over $1,000 to get this package rolling.

I guess I want it all, and I want it now.

Forgive me if this all sounds like a stupid question, but I don't want to throw good money into a half-baked plan.

Any feedback on my opinion on load ratings?

Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:30 am

Not Hip wrote: Sorry, math time -

If I understand how this all works, then an 8" (approx. 200mm) wide wheel with an offset of 38mm positions its inside bead 138mm ([200/2]+38 ) inboard of the mounting surface of the wheel. The OE 15x6 (approx. 150 mm wide) wheel with ET30 has the inside bead at 105mm ([150/2]+30 ).

If I use a spacer of 10mm, I end up with the inner bead at 128mm, 23mm further inboard than the OE wheels (I really wish I could whip up a digram for this). Will scrub be an issue? I can rotate tires due to the symmetry of the wheels front to rear so that's not a concern, but 225/55/17 tires aren't cheap for anything worth owning. I'm not anxious to replace them any more often than is necessary.

Okay, well uh, let me try to iron this out so that it makes sense.

Although your math is correct, you are trying to make corrolations between the 17x8 ET38 wheels and the 15x6 ET30 wheels that don't quite fit. Let me try explaining it a different way.

Lets take just the 15x6 ET30 wheel for our first example. A stated 6" wide wheel actually measures approx. .75"-1.0" wider than it's stated width making a stated 6" wide wheel closer to a 7" wide wheel overall, which we will use as our overall width measurement. Dividing that wheel in half will give us 3.5" (88.9mm) on either side of the centerline. Adding the 30mm offset, we end up with a 4.68" (118.9mm) backspacing. Now if we added a 10mm spacer to this 15x6 ET30 wheel, we would end up with a 20mm offset or a 4.29" (108.9mm) backspacing.

Now let's look at the 17x8 ET38 wheel. Just like the 6" wheel, an stated 8" wide wheel actually measures approx. .75"-1.0" wider than it's stated width making a stated 8" wide wheel closer to a 9" wide wheel overall, which we will use as our overall width measurement. The centerline of the wheel is at 4" (101.6mm). Add the 38mm offset and you get a 5.5" (139.6mm) backspacing. Add the 10mm spacer to this and you will get a 28mm offset or a 5.10" (129.6mm) backspacing.

However you choose to look at it, a 30mm offset, regardless of the wheel's width, will give you zero scrub on a 2wd Vanagon. This is part of the reason that I recommend staying as close to a 30mm offset for the front. The rear is not nearly as critical because it is much less dynamic compared to the front.

Not Hip wrote: Will this installation require bump stop modifications?

Not if you don't change the ride height. If you install lowering springs, you will want to trim the bump stops for sure.

Not Hip wrote: Also, if I want to switch back to the studded snows for winter driving which are on stock 14x6 wheels will I need to do anything other than locate hollow 14x1.5 26mm ball-seat lug nuts for the rears? Obviously I can retain the stock bolts for the fronts and remove the spacers, but should I run the rear snows with the spacers on the longer studs? I don't want to have to press in rear studs twice a year.

First of all, the 15x6 Vanagon wheels are the alloys which use a conical (tapered) seat lug, not the ball seat type like the steel wheels use. Either way, you will not have to change out the rear wheel studs when running your winter wheels. If your winter wheels are steel wheels, you will definately want to leave the spacer in place as the splined and blank shank area of the longer studs protrudes fron the brake drum surface by about 5mm. If you were to install a steel wheel on the longer studs without the spacer, the lug would bottom out on the stud before tightening the wheel properly. For the alloy Vanagon wheels, I think that you would be okay installing them without the spacer, but it would be best to check first. Leaving the rear spacer in place on the rear would be the best anyway just to be sure. You won't have any clearance problems to the sliding door.

Not Hip wrote: Any feedback on my opinion on load ratings?

I prefer not to discuss tires too much in this thread as it is already very convoluted and difficult to understand. There are many good threads on tires already.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:50 am

Will new vw rims fit on a vanagon?

Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:09 pm

Eric.T wrote: Will new vw rims fit on a vanagon?

Dude, seriously??

Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:53 am

Okay, I finally get to make a contribution to this thread...

I picked up a set of 15x6 ET45 Audi wheels from Craigslist. I believe these are from a 5000 Turbo - the same wheels are shown on this Vanagon.com list:
http://www.vanagon.com/info/tires/index.html (mine were a sort of gunmetal bronze-y color - I painted them with some gray metallic Duplicolor)

I enlarged the centerbores on two of the wheels myself with a router. Yes, I know I should have done all four at the same time, but wanted to get them mounted up before I take the van out this weekend. I'll do the other two if/when I ever want to rotate the tires (my van doesn't see a lot of miles, so it could be a while 8) ). The fronts needed some shaping in order to clear the rounded tops of the grease caps (even after shortening the caps a bit). The rears also needed a small amount of filing for the big hub nuts to fit through the centerbore.

I used 15mm spacers in the front along with longer bolts (thanks Loogy!). Smaller ball seats all around.

The lug mounting thickness on these wheels is only ~8mm, so the rears fit without needing longer studs, which was a big plus. Ideally, I could do spacers in the rear and longer studs to bring them out in line with the front, but they're fine as-is.

Old:

New:

Grease cap fitment - note that I'm not showing the passenger side. Apparently sometime after I shortened the caps and put them back on, but was still running the old wheels...well, I think it must have fallen off on the freeway :oops: . Anyone have a spare grease cap they want to get rid of?

I mounted 215/65 R15 VancoContact 2's. Looks like plenty of clearance with the front suspension.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:06 am

I have a set of 7 spoke alloys from a 2000 Passat. (15 X 7, ET45 I think) They have center caps with a VW emblem which I would like to use, if possible. This means I have to space the wheels out enough to clear the dust caps.

I will have to drill out the centers of course.

I've measured the fronts, andI'm hoping to use a 1" spacer (25mm) so the center caps will clear the front dust caps.

Will this work out with with 205/65R15 tires, or will the van drive weird? Also, I didn't check the rears, assuming they would fit. Can anyone confirm they will fit the rears OK? Do the rears stick out less than the front dust caps do?

Thanks all!

Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:35 am

they just came up for sale, not really what i'm looking for but can't beat the price. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=653316[/img][/list
What does ET 11 mean??

Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:06 am

Jason condie wrote: they just came up for sale, not really what i'm looking for but can't beat the price. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=653316[/img][/list
What does ET 11 mean??

means they are wrong for your van.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:18 am

I picked up some Touareg rims for my '87 Westy and want to put BFG A/T's on them. They are 7.5Jx17H2 ET55. What size adapter would I need, will I need a lift kit, and any recommendations for tire size? Thanks.

This is the only info I could find but they're for 6x17. Does it matter?

I do believe that the 17" Touareg wheels have a 55mm ET. If you ran a 25mm adapter (to change from the Touareg's 5x130 to the T3's 5x112 bolt pattern), that should be about perfect for the front. If it were me, I would run a 30mm adapter on the rear just to kick the tire out a little further.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:01 am

240Gordy wrote: Jason condie wrote: they just came up for sale, not really what i'm looking for but can't beat the price. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=653316[/img][/list
What does ET 11 mean??

means they are wrong for your van.
Thanks, thats all I needed to know!

Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:33 pm

zimzam wrote: I picked up some Touareg rims for my '87 Westy and want to put BFG A/T's on them. They are 7.5Jx17H2 ET55. What size adapter would I need, will I need a lift kit, and any recommendations for tire size? Thanks.

This is the only info I could find but they're for 6x17. Does it matter?

I do believe that the 17" Touareg wheels have a 55mm ET. If you ran a 25mm adapter (to change from the Touareg's 5x130 to the T3's 5x112 bolt pattern), that should be about perfect for the front. If it were me, I would run a 30mm adapter on the rear just to kick the tire out a little further.

Those Touareg wheels are indeed a 55mm offset and would require a 25mm adapter. I am fairly confident that you will be able to retain the VW emblem, but we should probably take some measurements of the hub depth with the center cap in place just to be sure.

Take a look at the following illustration to see how long the hub snout is. Measure down the inside of the wheel's centerbore and subtract the thickness of the adapter (25mm). This will let you know how much clearance you have.

The bigger problem that I see is that the shortest BFG A/T is 31.5" tall. That's a pretty tall tire for Vanagon. Not only that but it is fairly wide at a 245. If this is for a stock 2wd Westy, you will definatley have gearing and clearance issues to work through.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:52 pm

hiram6 wrote: Eric.T wrote: Will new vw rims fit on a vanagon?

Dude, seriously??

Guys! Let`s face it. New vw rims does fit on a vanagon. On my first Vanagon syncro I bought rims from a guy with an Audi Allroad. 7x17" with Nokian Hakkapelita II 225/55-17. These were wheels for winteruse, with dubs. And the best: Bolt on.! :)
Right now I have a Vw Crew-cab SYNCRO with 15". Going to use wintertires with dubs this winter but 215/75 15. Next summer I`m going to use rims from Vw, Audi or Mercedes fitted with 235/75-15 BF Good AT or MT. Or maybe I go for General grabber.

Crew-Cab pictures here http://www.vwbus.no/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10774
Vanagon pictures here http://www.vwbus.no/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3853

Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:00 pm

sunshine_norway wrote: hiram6 wrote: Eric.T wrote: Will new vw rims fit on a vanagon?

Dude, seriously??

Guys! Let`s face it. New vw rims does fit on a vanagon.

I don't think it was so much a matter whether or not "new vw" wheels fit or don't fit. I think Hiram6 was pointing out the obvious in that Eric.T could have found his answer by simply reading the information from this thread. Granted, there is a lot of it here and it may be hard for people to absorb and/or understand.

Also, "new vw" is kind of vague. How new? Which model? The New Beetle is still 5x100 and the Touareg is 5x130.

Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:04 am

[quote="loogy"] zimzam wrote: I picked up some Touareg rims for my '87 Westy and want to put BFG A/T's on them. They are 7.5Jx17H2 ET55. What size adapter would I need, will I need a lift kit, and any recommendations for tire size? Thanks.

Those Touareg wheels are indeed a 55mm offset and would require a 25mm adapter. I am fairly confident that you will be able to retain the VW emblem, but we should probably take some measurements of the hub depth with the center cap in place just to be sure.

The bigger problem that I see is that the shortest BFG A/T is 31.5" tall. That's a pretty tall tire for Vanagon. Not only that but it is fairly wide at a 245. If this is for a stock 2wd Westy, you will definatley have gearing and clearance issues to work through.

loogy,
Thanks for the beta and taking the time to respond. Would a Yokohama Geolander 225/60/17 at 27.6" tall be a better choice?

ZZ

Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:36 am

zimzam wrote: Would a Yokohama Geolander 225/60/17 at 27.6" tall be a better choice?

ZZ

Size wise, definitely a better fitment. You will probably notice a slight change in gearing but clearance shouldn't be much of an issue.

Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:24 am

I am considering a set of rims I found in the classifeds, as follows:

16" 8 hole Mercedes rims from a 1990 300SL. Seller says he does not know the offset, and says he sees no information stamped on the back of the rim.

Rims come with a set of tires which are Pirelli P7000 225/55zr/16.

I have a 2wd '87 Westy.

I've looked at the tirerack data on the rims they sell for the car and they sell a replacement rim which is identical which has an offset of 23. I saw an add for a set of rims for a 1990 300SL on ebay, however, and the seller listed the offset as 34.

I'm looking to avoid hardware headaches. Any comments regarding the above, and what is a fair price? Tires are said to have slightly more than 50% tread on them.

Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:32 pm

^

Unfortunately, without the offset and wheel width, there isn't much we can do. 99.9% of all alloy wheels have the offset (ET) stamped or cast into the wheel somewhere. I have a feeling the seller did not look very hard.

Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:56 pm

Just talked to him and told him where to find the offset; he says it is 34
The wheels are 16x7.5. Looking back at one of the "stickies" it sad that for an offset of 28-30, 16x7.5 wheels were really close, and that the tires would have to be spot on, and that they would need to be narrow. I had originally thought the tires were 225/55/16, but now he says they are 255/55/16. So I'm assuming the tires won't work. Question remaining is whether the wheel at 16.7.5 with a 34mm offset would bolt up or would require spacers, assuming I bought the rims from him and replaced the tires with appropriately sized tires.