TheSamba.com :: View topic - cb performance wide 5 disc brake kit...can it be made to wrk

Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:28 pm

im building a 59 over restored ratrod coupe,i would really love to keep my drum brakes,but my drums are very corroded on the outer "face" the wheels wouldnt sit right if i just bolted them on,so im faced with 4 possible resloutions.....

-keep my drums,grind out the rot,weld onto them "building them up" and resurfacing (machining) the outer "face" to remount the wheels properly

-buy good usable "a" drums...i would like to not do this to save money

-use a set of "b" drums...i only have the drums and backing plates so im wondering if i can use my "a" brake parts with the "b" drums

-and lastly possibly use the cb performance wide 5 brake kit for beetles,i like this idea alot,but i called cb performance and they said it wasnt interchangable,i asked why and they seemed to get upset,can i use the beetle dropped spindle on my 356 (again 1959) somehow? if i can why cant i use this kit,and i couldnt imagine why you cant use the rear kit on the porsche trans,can it be done? if so anyone know how?

i really appreciate any help,in answering my questions please keep in mind im building this car to drive the hell out of it,im doing the rust repair to the structure as we speak,i have no plans on fixing any of the outer appearance,BUT i am doing the rust repair correctly so that if i ever do want to restore the car i wont have to go redo my previous work,that said i wouldnt want to actually "hack" anything in

Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:26 am

This is not much help, just FYI
http://www.356registry.org/tech/vwtoporsche.html

Bryan

Last year there were two 356's on ebay that the owner had put on vw brakes all around. the pics were not clear and I didnt contact him for more info. I should have, because this comes up alot

Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:12 pm

cool,thanks for the reply,i'll get my 59 beetle front end and see what the interchangability is,i was just hoping someone would know,im sure one of these guys know,i'll post what i come up with,but in the meantime if anyone knows..........

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:54 am

The VW link and king pin front brake assemblies will bolt right onto your front Porsche drop arms. Don't let any of the Rennlisters know that I told you so, I'm trying to avoid crucifixion this week.

Luck!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:09 pm

You might want to try calling Franklin's VW Werks, he does all kinds of different brake conversions I am sure he could fab something up for you. 253-271-0292

Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:41 pm

thanks,im finally home from vacation,i think im going with my b drums at this point,so the vw brake assemblys work on 356 spindles? then why wont the cb wide 5 kit work i wonder? i wouldnt run with vw brakes though,thats stepping backwards in evolution,i appreciate the mention of franklins shop,but i want a wide 5 wheel with no adapters or offset,i could just make the c brakes/spindles i have work,no offense to anyone but i dont like the tight 5 porsche pattern on the early cars,to me it looks kitcarish and cheap,i'll see if i can get into the vw/posche differences tommorrow,it would be great if i could find someone whos already been down this road before

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:10 am

The VW brakes won't work on 356 spindles, but the VW spindles and brake assemblies will fit onto the 356. The front torsion drop arms will accept the early VW wide five spindles, the link and king pins are identical, you'll just have to use the correct number of shims and such to set everything up correctly.

If the CB kit, or the one from CIP-1 or the others will fit the Beetle front, then it will fit the 356 as well. Maybe the wheels will center differently within the 356 fender or some such thing. Possibly there will need to be a bit of surfacing to fit the steering knuckle into the yoke and such, you might have to replace the outer 356 tie rod ends with VW, but it's not that big of a deal.

VW Beetle racers have been fitting early 356 brakes to their cars and autocrossing on the old air strips since the 50's, this is an easy reverse procedure, it's nothing new.

I'm in the middle of doing the same thing on my 65SC, so far Easy Peasy !

If you're a little money shy about picking up the new brake parts, try a test run with used stock VW pieces. Once you're assured that they fit, then call CB and argue . . .

Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:56 am

What makes you think I was talking about prosche pattern? I've seen him make wide 5 disk brake kits to fit a type II. I know he can adapt the cb brakes to work on a 356.

Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:37 am

i didnt mean any offense,ive seen franklins stuff before hes a talented guy,but also his stuff requires alot of "hacking" which is exactly what i didnt want to do,i run a shop down here,we could fab something but i was just hoping for answers to my questions,which i have now,i really appreciate all the help guys,im not exactly a "newbie" to the 356s,i was a service mech for 7 yrs on porsche/vw exclusively,but the cars we worked on were very stock so we never really did any of this mismatching,anyhow at this point i think im using my "b" drums and backing plates while i find good "a" drums

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:52 pm

What does "over restored ratrod" mean? :?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:31 pm

thats my term,most ratrods are just scabbed together with whatevers laying around,this car is being rebuilt structurally like a bonafied "restored" car with the highest quality kraut panels,all but the outer skin will be restored,so i called it an "over restored ratrod" or another one could be "shamefully under restored",not everyones cup of tea im sure but its exactly what ive wanted for some time now,i didnt want a restored car because they really arent fun,and i wanted to have something that is a bonafied porsche,and for some reason im always more drawn to cars that arent finished or a little rough

Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:18 am

If you order the CB disc brake spindles then the brakes should bolt on the beam. My concern would be offset. The CB Wide-5 discs are just shy of 1/2" positive offset.

CSP makes a set specifically for the 356 A/B, I'd check with them on offset.
http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/shop_main.cgi?func=start&wkid=53504829230

Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:38 am

"for some reason im always more drawn to cars that arent finished or a little rough"

I know what you mean:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/TeamEvil/9e675f2c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/TeamEvil/71c9042a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/TeamEvil/375622a3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/TeamEvil/2e302ccb.jpg

I like the way you think . . .

Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:04 pm

whoa...thats neat to have all those decklids,are you gonna customize that car? i kinda hope you dont use any of those decklids or fenderflares,it looks better stock in my opinion,is that a subaru decklid?

Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:52 pm

hugheseum wrote: i didnt mean any offense,ive seen franklins stuff before hes a talented guy,but also his stuff requires alot of "hacking" which is exactly what i didnt want to do,i run a shop down here,we could fab something but i was just hoping for answers to my questions,which i have now,i really appreciate all the help guys,im not exactly a "newbie" to the 356s,i was a service mech for 7 yrs on porsche/vw exclusively,but the cars we worked on were very stock so we never really did any of this mismatching,anyhow at this point i think im using my "b" drums and backing plates while i find good "a" drums

Not sure what you mean by "hacking", but for anyone else that wants to check out some of Frank's work, look at page 56 of the February '07 Hot VW's, it shows some of the Wilwood disk brake kits that he put together.

Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:42 am

Decades ago, when the As were just a few years old, my dad and the guys at Chick Iverson figgered out you could use VW Transporter drums, if you wanted to. No big deal. They had to replace ruined or overturned drums a lot.

There are many such "tricks." I know we modded VW front parts to renew my 56 I had when I was 16. So I know it can be done. In fact, my whole suspension was rebuilt using lots of VW parts. A little cut here or a grind there and it all just worked fine. You could not buy a lot of new 356 parts then so you had to do that 30+ years ago.

There is no reason not too keep the drums if you like them.

That stated, you can craft up disc brakes like on the C model too using early 911 stuff. No big deal there either. Or better yet look at slightly later S parts. I am sure the various old time VW Porsche repair places remember all about that sort of stuff.....

BTW: You are in Oregon. Why not just go to the gurus in your state?