TheSamba.com :: View topic - Camper Special Rebuild Thread (Solexes@hotmail.com)

Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:13 am

Hey all!

Well --- first off I have to say the last few days have been VERY hard on me. No Samba meant a lot of pain. Talk about an addiction!

So - since I had a thread on the cosmetic restoration on my 71 Westy, I'm going to post my experiences on here in both dealing with Jake Raby, and his Camper Special as it pertains to us Bay Window Bus owners.

First let me state that in no way have I been encouraged by anyone to post favorable or unfavorable posts concerning Jake Raby, the Camper Special, or anything Type IV related. Everything you will read in this thread is from my own point of view.

The Bus
I picked up “Bonnie” from a gentleman in Tucson Arizona with the understanding that both engines that came with it were probably “crap.” And I was very right. Neither engine had good compression on #3 #4. I knew this bus was going to need an entirely new engine– and at $600 it was a good deal – when you take that into consideration.

The bus has over 470k documented miles. It was purchased by one of the previous owners in 1980 – with 70k on the clock. In the years this gentleman owned it – he racked up the miles, and two new engines and kept every receipt for every item. Even batteries! The transmission is also on it’s second incarnation at about 20k miles.

The Owner (me)
Now – I’m your average mechanically inclined guy. I’ve changed oil, installed engines, diagnosed ignition problems, and even hotwired my mom’s dune buggy when she lost the key (shhhhh!!!). But – I’ve never BUILT and engine. The closest I’ve come is putting all the trimming on a long block to get it to run (1600DP).

“The Man.”
Jake reminds me a lot of my father, even though he and I are only about a year apart in age. His attitude towards his products, and customers to me are exactly what I am looking for in a support system. He’s very knowledgeable about his product, but more importantly his audience. He’s aware of us “Bus Owners” and how we want to be able to faster, while running cooler, for longer periods of time. I researching and poured over online documents, charts, and personal websites of owners of the Camper Special – and finally this week I placed my order. Jake called me within 4 hours of my order to go over the particulars. He was interested in what I was going to be running, what type of case, what type of fuel system, and asked about my bus. Over all – he’s been very quick to respond. And yesterday I sent my check.

My Decision
A lot of people on here – and elsewhere – do not like Jake Raby and his program – nor do they like the prices. I’ll be honest. The very first time I saw his prices I baulked and thought “That’s a rip off.” This was back when I was considering buying a 1975 Weekender with a bad engine. Actually it turned me off of owning a Type IV entirely for a while. In 2005 I bought a 1975 Westy Deluxe and tried to drive to Tucson Az from Boulder Colorado with disastrous results. I didn’t make it – and dropped six seats at once. It was of course, my fault. But not entirely.

I’ve been leery of the Type IV engines for a long time due to ignorance – but one big event changed that outlook.

I moved to Bisbee Arizona in 2003, and it’s a great place to live. I’ve owned three busses since moving here – each one a Type I powered bus. A 1968 Deluxe, a 1970 Weekender, and a 1971 Westy. Each one has been very slow coming up into Bisbee through the Divide – a nice 2,000 foot elevation raise in about 8 miles.

Once day driving home – I spied a 1978 Westy in front of me – doing about 50 or 55 up the steepest part. Not in fourth gear, but in third – and I realized that in the same stretch I normally only do about 30 or 35 in my 71 with about 15 cars behind me, their drivers all suffering from a stroke induced by my slowness.

So I began researching what I would want to do to my 71 to get myself up those hills. Every post I’ve read talked about bigger engines, but if you do that with a Type I in the bay – you end up creating more heat. Not a lot – but in Arizona summer heat, I need less – not more.

Then I came BACK across Raby and the Camper Special in many posts. Every person who’s owned one (that I’ve spoken to) has glowing things to say about it. The low head temps, the pulling power, and of course the quality of the parts.

I did look at other options. I started looking at maybe building my own long block with over the counter parts. Its not a bad option – but when it all came down to it – after having to buy new bolts, oil cooler, etc etc etc – I was only about $500 or so shy of a Camper Special kit which includes all of that.

I also looked at maybe going with a Boston Bob engine.

But – that promise of more HP and Torque to get up that mountain – even faster than the 78 I saw that one day was too much of a goad. I’ve love to be able to get home from work without one “Dirty Look” because I’m not keeping up.

Beginning the Project
This is not going to be a fast project, but it shouldn’t take too long either. I’ll have some assistance from a fellow enthusiast in this instance. I plan on using a “core” GD engine I got for a whopping $250. It came with all of the rear tin, upper tin, lower tin, and thermostat, as well as all the FI components. It also looks to be in pretty good shape in comparison with my GE engine (GEX) and my CB engine (spare).

Currently I’m in the beginning stages of this project and have a long way to go yet.

This weekend:
Clean area of shop for workspace.
Remove exhaust from 1978 GE engine
Begin tear down of 1977 GD engine.
Begin inventory of L-Jet FI system components
- What the GD engine came with
- What the GE engine came with

I should have a post on my further experiences with Jake, the Type IV store, the 2.0L GD engine, and pictures of course to accompany.

He's the "before" pics

Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:42 am

Hey solexes - You made some interesting points for the T4. I to am mechanically inclined to about the same extent but I have to admit, the T4 has always intimidated me due to the fact that I know absolutely nothing of FI. I have always had the T1 engines. What is so special about this camper guy and where is he located? What is included in his "kits". The T4 really does run cooler and with more power? I have always enjoyed the simplicity of the T1. Enlighten me!

Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:23 am

The thing I've learned about FI over the last - say - five years - is that it is NOT that hard to understand. As long as the components are in good working order, its also a LOT more reliable than carbs.

As far as what is so specialy about Jake Raby's camper special - well - just ask any number of people who have experienced them. You go from around 70hp to about 92hp. Your torque also goes up to a whopping 120. Thats a lot considering the stock numbers. What takes it to that level? Well - its stock displacement - so it isn't that. My guess is the tolerances used on the parts, the effeciency of the cuts made to the head and valves.

What is included is - basicly everything you need to make a long block out of a short block. He includes just about every part you need. If you get the balancing (like I did) he will also balance everything as well - including the fan!

Do they really run cooler? - Well - I've yet to find someone that has one of the camper specials who says they've gone over 370 on head temps in any circumstance. Most people with bone-stock engines I've talked to usualy can say they reached 400 or more on uphills or during the summer.

Does it have more power? Yes. The Type 4 - because of it's beefyness and better breathing than the Type I gets more power - but Jake takes it to the next level.

For more info see...

www.aircooledtechnologies.com

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:28 pm

Ryan,
I appreciate the comments and your overview of my program. My products are not conventional and neither is my way of handling transactions and thats a good thing for the customer from both aspects.

when a p[erson is as radically different as I am, the same follows suite with the business that consumes it's creator. due to this some people can't understand what i do, how I do it or why I charge certain prices for it. These people come up with an image of me thats not accurate most of the time and thats just because they don't know who and what I am am, they see an image behind a curtain and thats about it. For this reason the door to my office has a plaque that states "Nobody gets in to see the wizard, not nobody, not no how!" (The old plhrase from the Wizard of Oz)

Those that have dealt with know who I am, what we do and the majority of them have been more than pleased with what we have provided for Turnkey engines as well as kits, like the Camper Special. Thats all that really matters to me honestly, keeping those who have paid for my creations pleased and typically exceeding their expectations in every way possible as these are the people that I work for and the people that keep allowing me to do the things I love doing from the comfort of the shop I have worked in most everyday since the age of 8.

Ryan, myself and my team look forward to providing you with more than you expect. My kit program is undergoing extreme revision and change as we train a new key employee to be our engine kit specialist. Please bear with us through this growing pain and we'll promise to act swiftly and professionally while completing your transaction.

BTW- we received the funds and are officially underway!

Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:47 pm

solexes@hotmail.com wrote:

Ryan, if you're not using that dual relay and ballast resistor, I have a customer who is in need of them. I apparantly sent my last set out and have no remaining in stock. :?

Glad to hear that you're coming around to the type IV powerplant.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:06 pm

Thanks Jake!

Time and time again - I've noticed that a lot of people that are nay-sayers about your kits are those who are not familiar with them - or do not have any practical experience with them. If anyone cares to "drop by" to see how the kit is coming - or to see the parts in person - I am willing to allow this to happen. Just PM me - and we'll arrange a time.

In general - I'm familiar with what is expected by a lot of people when it comes to kits. Maybe not from personal experience, but I can read and see what people post about their experiences in putting something together. I also have at least enough experience to go from a longblock to a finished product. Bassed off of this experience, and my expectations - I hope to provide people here with a report of my own personal experience.

Mind you - this is not intended to be a "glowing report" only - but a "as I see it" experience report. I'm not here to sell people on this project, and I am not here to disuade people either. But either way - my experience can help people with their projects whether or not they buy a kit. Putting together a long block is not something I've ever done. I did assemble a longblock from a shortblock - but that was a Model A Ford - not an ACVW - and it was also almost 17 years ago. (Yes - I was 14) - but I've never done anything so drastic as to "start from the begining."

However - bassed off of the quality I have seen online, and my experience so far - its going to SOUND like a "glowing report" at this point.

I would like to make a point to the dissenters....

This is not a light understaking on my part. I am not someone who is "taking a chance" or thinking lightly about this. I'm not the typical person who can just throw 5k into an engine and think nothing of it. In fact, aside from my house, this is the most money I have plunked down - in cash - for any purchase in my life. I feel confident bassed off of the personal experiences of those I've talked to - and of what I can see in the data - and website - that this is the right decision for me. I want quality - and lots of it - hecne my willingness to pony up to the bar.

It's also not a light undertaking because of the whole scope of the project. Mind you - I can program well - and disect an application down to the security components and identify encryption styles by the seat of my pants - but I've never done a long block build. Hence my securing help. Lol.

I have to admit that I am nervous when it comes to cracking a case (thank God I have three just in case one is shot - or I screw up somewhere) and trying to put it all back together. If anyone sees anything on here - that I am doing wrong - please speak up. If I'm missing something - don't forget to correct me. lol.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:09 pm

Quote: Ryan, if you're not using that dual relay and ballast resistor, I have a customer who is in need of them. I apparantly sent my last set out and have no remaining in stock

Er --- which part is that in the pic...like I said - I'm learning - and by the end of this project I should be a pro at FI LOL.

But right now - I'm a nOOb.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:14 pm

solexes@hotmail.com wrote:
Er --- which part is that in the pic...like I said - I'm learning - and by the end of this project I should be a pro at FI LOL.

But right now - I'm a nOOb.

let me know if you need help with the L-Jet injection as it seems to be my area of specialty.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:19 pm

Hey Ryan,
Looking forward to seeing your progress! As a newbie myself hopefully I can learn along with you. I kind of enjoyed this quote you said though:
Quote: This is not going to be a fast project, but it shouldn’t take too long either.
If I had a nickel for how many times I've said that....! Best of luck with your new engine. They sound great, and maybe I can convince my wife to get one....first I need to see if mine is ok.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:21 pm

Oh - those do-hickeys...

Lol

I am unsure as of yet - BUT - I may have extras. This bus seemed to come with two of everything (8 Injectors - 2 AFMs - etc etc etc) but I have to fist find out what I need to keep - and whether or not I have an extra or two. I may - I have about four crates of FI stuff to sort through first LOL.

Will keep ya posted.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:34 pm

Hey Quad!

Yah - well - I've learned to estimate better. I remember my first VW - my 63 beetle - I bought the longblock and thought "hrm - throw that in there, re-do the brakes, send it off for paint, upholstery, all that, should be on the road in a month at the most - all finished."

BWAHAHAHAHAH

More like 9 months.

SOLID Work.

Then my next project I just underestimated and got out from under before it became a money pit.

The last one - my 71 Westy was very close on my estimates. I figured - paint, re-assembly - and get it back on the road - four months. Not too bad. It was just about four months exactly - but then I changed plans at the last minute on the interior - and it took an extra two weeks.

This one --- I plan to have on the road - BY June. The interior isnt too bad - I'm betting on a refinishing time of about two weeks - maybe three. Exterior is going to be treated for rust, and buffed out - hopefully I can save the paint. We'll see. Splittysmile has inspired me.

Heheh - Quad - you should get yours running first - and enjoy it for a while before you delve in. If it isn't running - well - thats another ball of wax entirely....then see what your needs are - and what your budget can afford.

The one thing I did realise about this.

Bus cost - $600
Engine Kit - $4133

Thats a chunk of change.

If I sell this bus - the engine does NOT go with it. LOL. If I EVER have to sell it - and I swear - this is the bus I will own till I die - but IF I do - I will build a stock engine to go in it.

I have a bit left over $$$ for "incidentals." FI parts if I need to replace them, new tires, and such. But not much more. I dont want this bus pretty tho. no big dollar re-paint. no huge investment on interior. Nah - I want to drive the hell out of it though. Lol...

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:41 pm

Quote: In general - I'm familiar with what is expected by a lot of people when it comes to kits. Maybe not from personal experience, but I can read and see what people post about their experiences in putting something together. I also have at least enough experience to go from a longblock to a finished product. Bassed off of this experience, and my expectations - I hope to provide people here with a report of my own personal experience.

That is the overview that i see as well.. In fact the responses and opinions of those that have not experienced my products are not even of any substance to me. People have opinions and sometimes they voice them loudest when they don't have the funds to purchase something, thats what happens many, many times to us because my components are not cheap.

I do not know of any customers that have a Camper Special engine (Turnkey or kit) that have any complaints with it. Some people have had more challenges during assembly than others with their kit, but thats to be expected. To date I have NEVER received a complaint from a Camper Special customer and we sell more of these kits than all others.

Ryan, I appreciate your sharing of the endeavor here. I also ask that you utilize the Engine kit owner's lounge on my forums to share these experiences as people there will benefit from what you share as all members of that lounge group are engine kit purchasers. Thats where all questions, concerns and general post should be made that need my attention.

At the end of this month I'm retiring from all other online communities and will be only sharing my work and information in our online community. We now have 1,000 members begging for my info and data!

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:44 pm

Quote: Ryan, I appreciate your sharing of the endeavor here. I also ask that you utilize the Engine kit owner's lounge on my forums to share these experiences as people there will benefit from what you share as all members of that lounge group are engine kit purchasers. Thats where all questions, concerns and general post should be made that need my attention.

Will do Jake...

as soon as I have access.... :D

Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:57 pm

Yeah, I plan to get it running as my first priority. Replace fuel lines, brake lines, and hopefully get it on the road in a few months. My wife has these crazy projects which keep getting in the way - and I seem to be the one doing them all! Pergo laminate floors I'm doing now, followed by my daughter's outdoor jungle gym...it never ends! Sadly, with the Samba crash, I'm back to a TRAINEE - I had over 50 posts that got lost!!

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:07 pm

Hey Quad - no worries -

As far as "projects." Back when I was "involved" with someone - it was understood that I had at least one day a weekend to myself and my VW projects. *Shrug* - and then Sunday was an "us" day entirely. Kept the strain down.

Fuel lines is not hard to do. Go do it - drain the tank and flush it - and see if it'll run....

it'll be amazing once it's running just how quickly you can "find time" to work on it.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:23 pm

Ryan, whats your username on my forums?

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:24 pm

rprice76

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:28 pm

Thanks Ryan! What do you recommend for a gas tank flush? Is there something that is sold at the parts stores, or do you have to pull the tank? Eventually I probably will do that, but don't really want to right away.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:33 pm

My suggestion on flushing the fuel tank to remove dead gas, varnish and rust would to do it like ratwell did.

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FuelTankRestoration.html

Do it once and do it right and yes it requires removing the fuel tank. Easiest with the engine out and change out all of the hoses and vent lines including the big one, the fuel filler hose.

If your fuel gauge sending unit does not work, now is the time for that also.

Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:34 pm

A lot of people pull the tank and treat it - I've heard of something along the lines of a sealant kit made by the people that make POR 15. Dunno if its any good tho.

You can take a gas can - fill it with gas, and run the intake and return fuel lines in through the top to get an idea if it'll run.