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Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:06 pm

My wife has just purchased a Vert that needs restoration. The heater channels need replacement as well as the pans? Can those that have done their own restoration, please help us understand just how easy or hard a body-off restoration is? Feel free to be as detailed as possible.

JH & MH

Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:33 pm

Also are the heater channels and pans different on verts than the hardtops? In other words will the heater channels and pans for a hardtop 72 SB fit a 72 SB vert?

Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:40 pm

First of all.. It will take more time than you ever imagined.. I won't get into many details... for reasons like.. don't know what year your car is.. are you going for stock.. resto-custom or one-off? anyway you pull the straws pan- off restos with lots of body work and all that take sometimes years.. I have seen it happen in 10 months.. up to ten years to restore ONE car.. you have a Vert. which puts you in the next category.. SUPER FUCKIN EXPENSIVE.. that right.. I don't know what kind of deal you got on your vert but there are shells for sale on the samba for 2000 dollars.. if piles of junk are going for that much.. think about all the parts and their prices.. plus factor in that Verts have 4 x as many parts as a hardtop,, maybe just 2wice as many.. (i.e. hardtop= 2 window regulators vert=4 window regs. you will not be able to do everything yourself on the resto either.. unless you know how to rebuild engines, paint the car (and make it look good), rechroming OG parts. etc so basically in short plan on 10s on thousands of dollars to restore it once.. and have it all done right.. and maybe a couple of years .. and as a general rule the earlier the car the more tens of thousands of dollars you can add on to that quote... there that was the short version of what I had to say.. you're not gonna get off easy but you will have one of what I believe are some of the more beautiful Volkswagens ever made

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/index.php?photo+200206291418051618

That is exactly what I mean.. take note on the asking price as well
Just beautiful.. I wish I had 25 G's laying around!

DK

DK

Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:41 pm

oh it's a Super Beetle.. I fold..
don't know a dime about em

DK

Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:41 pm

that part about SB wasn't there when I started typing..

Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:56 pm

DK is right, Verts are more extensive as well as expensive. Let your own standards and desires rule the restoration process. I have come to the realization that VW's are not Bentley's and "whatever goes"!

The heater channels are part of the vehicles structural integrity- on Verts they are even more important. Since there is no real roof area for vehicle structural support the difference was made up in the rocker\heater area.

How rusty is the car?? Post some pics! I'd be happy to tell you what to expect by looking at a few good shots...

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:03 pm

i like the vert that was posted but i don't understand the "you finish portion"
25k i would hope it is completly finished(it looks it in the pics)

Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:42 pm

"how easy or hard" is difficult to define. vw beetles are easier to restore than jaguar e-types... but if your automotive repair experience is limited to pulling jammed cd's out of the cd player, you may find it to be a hellishly difficult experience. Mostly, Vw restoration is about commitment- repairng pans and heater channels is usually the tip of the iceberg- there is usually additional rust in the innner fenders, door posts, frame head and package tray, ranging from patchable to "throw up your hands and surrender." You will learn about cutting, welding, grinding, sanding, painting... or pay someone else to do what you don't want to. It can be a GREAT experience- providing you are realistic, and understand what you are getting into.

VW restoration rule #1: All repairs will cost double what you estimate they will, and take three times as much time.

VW restoration rule #2: You can have your car on the road soon, or you can have your car on the road cheap. you can't have both. see rule #1.

VW restoration rule #3: Sooner or later, you will buy a Bentley manual and a copy of Muir's. Sooner is better. and cheaper. and less frustrating.

Read your manuals, and then follow the steps:

First step- grab a pad, a pen, and a cold beverage, and go out to the garage and spend some time with your car. (If you don't have a garage, get one. if you are gonna restore this car, you are gonna need one.) Write down EVERYTHING that needs to be done. every damn little thing. it's amazing how much time and money the little stuff can take, especially when you haven't planned for it. poke, prod, fiddle, find all of the things that are deficient. make a list of all of it, and make sure that list is detailed. don't just write down "rebuild brakes," break it down- "replace brake hoses, replace brake drums, replace master cylinder" etc.

Second step- Grab another cold beverage, and sit down (again) and spend some time with yourself... and your significant other, if she is gonna help restore her new pride and joy. make another list- listing your skills and interests- what you know how to do, what you can learn how to do.. and just as importantly, what you DON'T want to do. For example, if you don't know how to do electrical work and hate doing electrical work, and don't want to learn, then it is best to figure that into the equation- because that is a job you will want to PAY someone else to do, so you better figure it into your budget.

Third step- evaluate your tool supply- do you have what you need to do what you have to do? if you don't, how much is it going to cost to get the tools to do the jobs, that are on the list, to restore the car that jack built? (sorry, got carried away there)

Fourth step- get out the calculator, some catalogues, and go online, and start figuring your total budget. It can be a little scary, but believe me, the stress level is a lot lower when you know what you are going to spend before you start spending it- especially when a wife is involved. i learned this one the hard way. ask my first wife. often, your time budget is dictated by your cash budget- if you know it is going to take two years to earn the extra cash to do what needs to be done... then you know how long you realistically have to work on your car, don't you?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:48 pm

If you take the apporach outlined above, then it can be a heck of a lot of fun, even if you are a novice. one more piece of advice- don't get discouraged. restoring a car is 90% tearing it apart, trial fitting, tearing it apart again, bending it, snapping it, replacing it, scratching your head, and cursing. your car will spend more time in pieces scattered throughout your house than it will in one piece, so it is easy to lose sight of the forest for the trees.
How do you eat an elephant? one bite at a time.

Even when things look their worst, commit to working on the car at least one hour a day. that's it, just an hour. even if you just do some little piddly job, like replacing brake shoes, it keeps momentum going during discouraging times... and pretty soon, things start to look better.

good luck, enjoy yourself, and keep us posted on the progress.

Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:42 pm

I started getting frustrated with my project and decided I would just abandon it for something else but I came to my senses. I re-evaluated it, made some changes in what I would do, and I'm back at it and trying to spend at least an hour a day working on it.

Tips:

Take small steps and asking lots of questions.

Try to keep your work area clean and only have out the parts that you're working on. (If I leave a thousand pieces lying around I get distracted and lose focus.)

Take lots of pictures and notes.

Good luck.

Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:17 pm

I agree for 25K, I wouldnt xpect to do anything but drive and show.
He guys thanks a bunch for the info. We have a much better understanding of what we are getting into. We have a lot to learn, but we have started in the right direction. My wife still says she doesnt understand why it cost so much, but as she learns more she might start to see. You guys gave some great info. but no one answered my question about the hardtop SB and the vert SB. Are the pans, heater channels, and chassis the same?

JH

Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:24 pm

No they are not

Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:53 pm

pans and chassis are the same, but there are longitudinal stiffeners installed under the sills on the vert.

Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:55 am

nice call bljones...wish i had that list before i started...i am finally nearing the finish line...do you know how many trips I have made to the hardware store to find a nut, bolt or screw to replace my rusted ones? LOTS AND LOTS...I've spent lots of money on tools. Its too bad someone doesnt write a book on what to do, expect etc when restoring a VW. Although I am sure the process is similar for any resto...The Bentley has been a god send...and trial fit everything, ESPECIALLY RUBBER, cuz once you cut it wrong, you will be ordering more...and waitin....hehe..oh..and label and bag EVERYTHING!!!!

Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:57 am

oh..one more thing..like bljones says...time is everything...anything you think you can do in an hour...double it...its and old VW and sh!t happens!

Mon Aug 04, 2003 9:49 am

thanks. I'm thinking about writing that book. "VW restoration for dummies too stupid to follow the Idiot's manual" It'll be an autobiography. (god, that was a terrible pun.)
Welcome to the hard knocks school of air-cooled restoration- the entry exam is easy, but the tuition is prohibitive.

Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:13 pm

I answered your question earlier in this post!!!!!!!! Go back and read what I wrote about the structural integrity of vert vs standard body bugs.

Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:22 pm

13 years and counting on my '69 body off...

Mon Aug 04, 2003 7:52 pm

Hey you guys are great!!! (guys is a unisex term Denise ;-) I expected 1 or 2 people to respond to my post. I am new to Samba. Less than a week!! The information that you guys give really help me to begin to understand. Thanks so much!! I hope I can be this helpful to someoone on this site one day.

JH

Mon Aug 04, 2003 9:31 pm

shakjam, did you get the e-mail I sent you??