TheSamba.com :: View topic - Disc brakes

Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:35 pm

I'm about to have my mechanic install disc brakes on the front and rear of my '74. He needs to remove all the stock stuff (drums, lines, etc.) and then install the bolt-on kit.

The kit includes:
front and rear discs
front caliper mounts
dust caps
grease seals
SS hoses
dual stage master cylinder
new hubs
E-brake cables
E-brake calipers
wheel adapters
...the works.

My question is how many hours would/should it take to complete swapping out the brakes (tops), and how much would you expect to pay an ACVW mechanic to do the job?

Thanks,
Slim

Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:48 pm

That's a full day job for someone familiar with the work. At $50/hr that's four bills, more or less as your local labor rates go. If it spills into Day Two that's anothe couple of hunnies.

Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:15 pm

Would 1 to 2 hours for disassembly of the old system be accurate? And would 5 to 6 hours for instalation of the new kit be about right?

Including the time for a test drive and any additional adjustments would the whole job take much more than 10 hours?

I'm only asking because the estimate I've been given seems VERY high regarding the time it will take. Is it me, or does 16 to 22 hours seem completely out of line?

As far as local labor rates go here in CT... well they can get pretty high - anywhere from $60 to $90 an hour in some places.

Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:29 pm

16 to 22 if they have never worked on a VW before. But you wouldn't want that person working on your car.

Two full days is the outside I'd accept. Any more and you are paying for their education. Let them do that on THEIR time, not yours.

Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:38 pm

Thanks for the input KTPhill. That helps. I knew that estimate sounded too high.

Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:16 pm

Brakes are not really very hard, and if you have new parts it can even be fun. Have you thought of doing them yourself?

The savings of having a air cooled VW is doing the work yourself.

Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:55 pm

I'm not much of a mechanic, and have little experience turning wrenches. Perhaps my introduction into the exciting world of automotive repair shouldn't be replacing the entire brake system of a 33 year-old car that isn't known for it's many safety features. :lol:

I don't know. Maybe you're right. This kit is supposed to be a straight-forward, bolt-on deal. With the estimate I have, it might be worth recruiting one of my gear-head buddies and giving it a shot! I don't mind getting my hands dirty, and would like to know the satisfaction of being able to say "Yeah, I did that".

I guess my wife will want me to increase my life insurance policy at this point. :shock:

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:04 am

Over the years, I've done more and more work on my car. I love it! As an old part gets replaced, I learn how it's supposed to go together. It's mine! If something goes wrong, I usually know how to fix it because I put it together.

Also, hired help wont notice rust forming under the parts, worn bearings or areas where dirt is accumulating. Seeing it first hand gives you quite a different experience. Likewise, they may be watching the clock - hurrying to get it done in the timeframe you agreed to. If you're doing it and you find that you want to stop a bit of rust, you can decide to take a bit longer and get it done right.

I did my front disk brake conversion a few years ago and I found it pretty easy. Note that even if you don't have a manual, you're simplifying the system. My new brakes would only go together one way but the old drum brakes are much more complex with the various springs and levers that can be difficult to work out without a reference.

Remember to torque everything and bleed the brakes when you're finished.

When you're working with the brakes (or any of the steering or drivetrain) always always take a "victory lap". That is, when you finish your work, carefully take it for a test drive. Assume that the brakes will fail and plan accordingly - go slow at first, test them often, aim for soft landing spots, etc. When you get back, double-check to ensure nothing came loose.

Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:42 am

If the kit does in fact bolt on and is complete and designed well then I woulkd say his hours are on the high side.

BUT BUT BUT

Having said that and being one of those lucky guys that gets to work on 30 year old VW every day you need to remember nothing is every straight forward with old cars and custom mods. I would suggest he is allowing for things to brake, threads to be repaired, main brake lines to be replaced and time to fabricate those little bits that maybe needed when doing modifications.

If it was a straight brake job then yeah a few hours or a day would be ample, but fitting a Custom Kit made by someone else .. that could blow out quite easy.

Could be wrond but I have never found any kit to be bolt on and fit without some sort of modification ....

Who made the kit ??

Cheers,

Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:34 am

The kits are from Airkewld and are made for Things. I'm hoping no mods will be needed.

Besides my overall lack of mechanical ability I also don't have the time to do it myself. I've been working 6 days a week just to pay for the overhaul.

Besides, if I were to attempt this on my own I know it would take me four times longer to do it than a professional. With the learning curve, combined with limited time to work on it, I probably wouldn't be able to get it on the road until mid-summer. I'm hoping to be able to get it on the road before April.

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:30 am

It's the little things that can bite you. Does the kit come with new hard lines for the master? You might end up having to buy/bend or make new hard lines because sometimes the ports on the master vary. This is happenign on my T3 because there are at least three varieties of master cylinders just for my year! But it's really just nuts and bolts and common sense. Maybe you can talk to the kit maker about advice, instructions. I would expect a couple of delays while you find the right wrench, hose, pipe, etc..

Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:52 am

KTPhil wrote: It's the little things that can bite you. Does the kit come with new hard lines for the master? You might end up having to buy/bend or make new hard lines because sometimes the ports on the master vary. This is happenign on my T3 because there are at least three varieties of master cylinders just for my year! But it's really just nuts and bolts and common sense. Maybe you can talk to the kit maker about advice, instructions. I would expect a couple of delays while you find the right wrench, hose, pipe, etc..

The kit uses all your factory lines and the master is a direct replacement.
The braided hoses in the kit make a simple replacement possible. Hope this helps.

Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:06 pm

If you are using thye BAD brakes from Airkewld, please let us know. I have considered them for a while.
The kit looks easy to install from their website.

Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:01 pm

The Airkewld BAD brakes should be arriving early next week. I'll let you know what happens with everything.

Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:02 pm

I know you are limited on time and claim lack of experience. I installed a full set of disc brakes on all 4 corners of a 63 bug. The kit was made by AC Industries. As mentioned prior, bolt on kit with exception of bending new rear hard lines. It did eat some time and I had to call the shop where I purchased for some clarification (no instructions included).

All in all, sweet set up putting disc in all four corners and learned alot along the way.

Currently doing a 74 Thing restoration. I would love disc brake set up. Gotta cut some upfront costs. Maybe down the road.

Good luck with getting the project completed.

Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:00 pm

Here are some online pictorials for you to use when you get the BAD Brakes.
http://www.airkewld.com/how_to/thumbnails.php?album=14
http://www.airkewld.com/how_to/thumbnails.php?album=15

Just wanted to check that off the list if you did not already know. Take care and enjoy the brakes!

Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:26 pm

Airkewld

Will you sell your Thing caliper mount only for use on stock Ghia setup on Thing front end?

Will your adapter adapt from 5 bolt Thing to 5 lug 130mm 944 cookie cutters?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:15 pm

alsehendo34 wrote: Airkewld

Will you sell your Thing caliper mount only for use on stock Ghia setup on Thing front end?

Will your adapter adapt from 5 bolt Thing to 5 lug 130mm 944 cookie cutters?
we do not offer a ghia caliper bracket for the thing spindles on Wilwood.
Also we do not have any adapters, sorry.

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:25 pm

Kewld!

Thanks for visiting us red headed stepchildren of the VW world, now get workin on more Thing projects on your web site. I want to see it done before I consider turning my project into a rat rod old skewl kewlbelwagen. :lol:

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:56 pm

I have the caliper mounts for use on the Thing with Ghia calipers ready to ship. I also have wheel adapters and wide 5 stock 15" wheels.. 16 hours to do a four wheel brake conversion in a shop setting is robbery. I tjus does not take that long. Removing old bolts can...