TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:53 pm

AMSOIL has five products with higher levels of ZDDP for flat tappet engines. Below is information for an AMSOIL TSB addressign this issue. the information below is an excerpt that lists the products and their respective zinc and phosphorus levels:

AA Date: 08/08/07
AMSOIL Product Name
Phosphorus Level
(ppm)
Zinc Level
(ppm)
AMO 10W-40 Synthetic Premium Protection
1265
1378
ARO 20W-50 Synthetic Premium Protection
1266
1379
HDD Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Oil
1266
1379
TRO 20W-50 Synthetic Racing Oil
1235
1370
AHR SAE 60 Synthetic Racing Oil
1265
1375

If you would like let me know your e-mail address and Iwill forward a copy of the TSB to you.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:01 am

I have a 1970 standard beetle with a 1776cc Mofoco with hydraulic lifters and dual dellarto carbs. I just bought the car a few months ago and after doing some restoration work on the interior i'm about to change the oil. what would be the best oil to use? i've read a lot in these forums with different reccomdendations. the PO said he used 20w50 but i'm thinking that is a little thick for the hydraulic lifters causing them to not pump up as fast. I was thinking of going with 15w40 synthetic. i also should mention i live in Tampa and it's pretty much hot all year round.

thanks all!!!!!!!!

Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:57 pm

bon2198 wrote: I have a 1970 standard beetle with a 1776cc Mofoco, what would be the best oil to use?

Call Roy, and ask him. His shop built it, so they would know best.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:43 pm

I would reccomend AMSOIL AMO or ARO Synthetic Lubricants. These oils have a higher zinc and phosphorus levels which are needed for the flat tappet cams. The AMO is 10W 40 and ARO is 20W 50. Being sythetic with uniform molecules the flowability is excellent. The key is going to be the temperatures you operate in. Being in Tampa, the 20W 50 would be a good choice in the hot summer months, but the 10W 40 would do a excellent job as well.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:49 pm

Or use Brad Penn 10W-30 which along with backing off my ignition timing 2 degrees reduced my oil temps by 20 degrees.

Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:23 am

larryskydives wrote: AMSOIL has five products with higher levels of ZDDP for flat tappet engines. Below is information for an AMSOIL TSB addressign this issue. the information below is an excerpt that lists the products and their respective zinc and phosphorus levels:

AA Date: 08/08/07
AMSOIL Product Name
Phosphorus Level
(ppm)
Zinc Level
(ppm)
AMO 10W-40 Synthetic Premium Protection
1265
1378
ARO 20W-50 Synthetic Premium Protection
1266
1379
HDD Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Oil
1266
1379
TRO 20W-50 Synthetic Racing Oil
1235
1370
AHR SAE 60 Synthetic Racing Oil
1265
1375

If you would like let me know your e-mail address and Iwill forward a copy of the TSB to you. larryskydives wrote: I would reccomend AMSOIL AMO or ARO Synthetic Lubricants. These oils have a higher zinc and phosphorus levels which are needed for the flat tappet cams. The AMO is 10W 40 and ARO is 20W 50. Being sythetic with uniform molecules the flowability is excellent. The key is going to be the temperatures you operate in. Being in Tampa, the 20W 50 would be a good choice in the hot summer months, but the 10W 40 would do a excellent job as well.

Thanks,
Larry Stapleton
AMSOIL Dealer
www.stapletonoil.com

Have you or Amsoil done any real testing of Amsoil on Air-cooled volkswagen engines, like the folks in the link below? Or are you just quoting company stats for any other engine design? Best guess? Any pertinent testing data you'd like to share?

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

Your samples above are impressive, but L.N. Engineering has tested oils that were equally impressive. IIRC, there were only 4-5 brands that actually stood up to the exhaustive testing regimen, 2 of which are recommended exclusively from a reputable engine builder and member of the forums here. Guess what many of us, who've actually been a part of the Air-cooled VW scene for years, and have seen results of the L.N. Engineering's tests above, are beginning to use in our ACVW's?

I'm not knocking Amsoil. I've used various blends in my V-8's and older tappet valve motorcycles with excellent success. I'm knocking you and your figures you posted above, with an apparent lack of test data available to us, the consumer, as supporting proof that Amsoil is a good lubricant to use in ACVW's.

Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:07 am

He doesnt care. He just advertising for his website so he can sell more oil. Im sure he posted the same thing in many other different car forums. Note onlyy 3 posts.

Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:44 am

I have do not have any specific test data on use in VW. However, if you go to the website and look at the comparative test data, you will see that AMSOIL ranks highly in the High Temerature/High Shear test. They ranked one number over 10 other oil. Don't take my word, go look at the test information. If you would like I would be glad to e-mail a copy to anyone who requests it.

AMSOILS motorcycle oil are know as some of the best on the market. While, Harleys, and other aircooled motorcycles engine are not the same as the VW aircooled engines, the principles are the same.

Additionally, AMSOIL does not have one size fits all oil. They have many formulas that are designed for specific applications.

Yes, I am promoting AMSOIL, and no I am not going to every other website and posting. Don't just take my word or jump on here and make derogatory posts until you do your homework. You may find another lubricant that you feel better about, but be aware that AMSOIL was the first API Certified Synthetic and that was over 35 years ago. Check it out, that all I am saying asking

Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:09 am

From the L&N webpage:

"Any information you may receive related to this web site is provided merely as friendly suggestions, not as expert opinion, testimony or advice. Neither LN Engineering nor Charles Navarro endorses or sponsors any information, products or methodologies you may find herein."

Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:42 am

After a rebuild I broke in my engine with a non detergent 30 wt and now Im running swepco 30 wt. Im taking a lot of swepco with me on my travels but I am wondering if it is detrimental to my engine to switch oils mid stream. 30 wt is fine for all of the climates I will be traveling but I probably be able to get swepco when Im abroad.

Will switching brands and or grades cause me to burn oil or harm my engine?

Thanks

Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:42 am

Das Dragon wrote: From the L&N webpage:

"Any information you may receive related to this web site is provided merely as friendly suggestions, not as expert opinion, testimony or advice. Neither LN Engineering nor Charles Navarro endorses or sponsors any information, products or methodologies you may find herein."

It's called a disclaimer. Sort of like a hair dryer being labeled "do not use i nthe bath tub".

Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:42 pm

As some are aware I have started posting in regard to AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants. I am a dealer and I am trying to get business from this forum. I have been a member since 2005, so I am not new to the forum, just have read a lot in the past.

In PM's with another member he suggested that I put my credentials on my profile and you know what they are.

I have been ASE Certified in Major Engine Repair and Cylinder Head Machinest. I was a DSM for Dana Corp (Perfect Circle Engine Parts, Victor Gaskets, and Spicer Driveline Products for 8 years. I spent 4 years as a DSM with WIX Filters which was a Dana Division until they became a part of Affinia Group.

There are many reputable lubricants on the market, but I personally feel that AMSOIL warrants a good look. I remeber when Mobil 1 was released and they promoted extended oil changes. Then they went to OEM recommended oil change intervals. The other synthetics that came out also do not promote extended oil changes.

AMSOIL promotes extended oil changes of up to 25,000 miles or one year when using an AMSOIL Nanofiber Oil Filter. AMSOIL stands behind this with their warranty and they will stand behind it. If you do not use an AMSOIL Nanofiber Oil Filter, then you can change out the oil filter at the regular intervals but keep the oil for 25,000 miles or one year.

The engines I had in two dune buggies, and one baja bug I have owned only had the screen in the bottom. I probably would not go more than 7500 miles or one year. My personal theory, but if I had a full flow oil filter, I would not hesitate taking it to 25,000 miles or one year.

Now with all of that said - Don't just take what I or anyone else says as gospel. Do your own research also, I know you will find that AMSOIL is a very high quality lubricant. I run it my 08 Nissan Frontier and I immediately saw that it was running cooler, about two notches on the water temp gauge. And I run it in both my wife and mines Harleys. She has a Street Bob and I run a Road Glide. On my Harley which has an oil pressure guage and my Nissan, the needle starts pulsing when the engine starts turning over. Before AMSOIL, it would start before the needle would move.

Thanks for putting up with me, to Das Dragon. I should have those numbers on the zinc and phosporus to you Monday. I got busy after I sent in my request and did not get time to follow it up with a call. And thanks Rzar for your comments.

Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:23 am

I use AMSOIL in all my vehicles, the oil is very clear when I put it in the engine, comes out clear as well. Looking at the oil clarity next to mobil 1, you can see that mobil 1 looks cloudy next to AMSOIL. My Toyota and VW run cooler with AMSOIL or other synthetics over dino oil. AMSOIL is very good, as well as other synthetics, and I will no longer use dino oil.

Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:28 am

What it all comes down to is personal preference, either way, change the oil on a regular basis. Dino ol is a good lubricant, but synthetic has its advantage over dino oil. I like to use amsoil when I can, but I will use Supertech fully synthetic as well. I change my oil on a regular basis and the engines are running great!

It comes down to a few things when it comes to oil choices:
Price
Personal preference

Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:05 pm

larryskydives wrote: AMSOILS motorcycle oil are know as some of the best on the market. While, Harleys, and other aircooled motorcycles engine are not the same as the VW aircooled engines, the principles are the same.
The only one that's even close to an ACVW engine is BMW R-series boxers, R50/60/75/90. A Harley is aircooled, except for the V-Rod, but it's a v-twin, with vertical pushrods and valvetrain. You can't compare the two anyway, especially with the load/weight differences.

larryskydives wrote: Don't just take my word or jump on here and make derogatory posts until you do your homework.

I didn't, nor did anyone else make derogatory remarks.

I know which Amsoil products to use with whatever toys I have, I've done the required reading. I understand you're promoting your product, and that's a good thing, I guess, even though you have an ad in the classifieds.

Just trying to keep the facts straight. Amsoil has done no lubricant testing on Air-cooled Volkswagen engines, correct?
larryskydives wrote: I have do not have any specific test data on use in VW.

Ok.

Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:44 pm

Quote: She has a Street Bob and I run a Road Glide. On my Harley which has an oil pressure guage and my Nissan, the needle starts pulsing when the engine starts turning over. Before AMSOIL, it would start before the needle would move.

So are you running Harley specific oil for this application?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:45 pm

On our Harleys, I am running MCV 20W 50 which is formulated for motorcycles and is specified/reccomended for our application. Also, by using an AMSOIL Nanofiber Oil Filter, they will warranty double the manufacturers oil change interval which lets me go 10,000 miles or one year.

On my Nissan I am running AMSOIL ASL 5W 30 and a AMSOIL Nanofiber Oil Filter which allows me to go 25,000 miles or one year between oil change intervals. This is saving me money, as I drive 5,000 miles month and I was changing my oil every 5,000 miles, now I can change the oil 5 -6 months. Along with saving money it is go for the environment. Instead of having to dispose of over 6 gallons of oil, I will only have to dispose of a little over 1 gallon of the AMSOIL oil.

Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:50 pm

larryskydives wrote: On our Harleys, ......... 1 gallon of the AMSOIL oil.
Do you own a air cooled VW? If so for how long?

This AMSOIL dealer is about 5 miles from me ( http://www.bestsynthetic-oil.com ) so I can save on shipping. When I go there which oil should I get?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:20 pm

Advertising is not allowed in the Forums. Please restrict oil conversations to VW-related applications as much as possible.

Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:21 pm

Little over a gallon was on the Nissan. But with that, AMSOIL MCV20W 50 is used in all three holes of a Harley, engine, primary case, and transmission. To do all three takes about 5 1/2 qts give or take.

I haven't had a VW in about two years, the last on I had was 1972 Super Beetle - Baja Edition that I restored drove fo a while and sold. Prior to that I have had one sand rail buggy that I didn't finish, and I have been through 2 Manx style that got back in running condition and sold. I have more of thing for getting older cars and fgetting them running and then selling. It's more a mechanical thing for me - tinkering. My project that I have now is a 1950 Pontiac Silver Streak that I call myself making into a ratrod. After this project, I knd of like the idea of the VolksRod style.

I would suggest you use the AMSOIL AMO10W 40. This oil is specially formulated for flat tappet engines and has higher levels of zinc and phosphorus needed for antiwear at the lifter/cam lobe contact area.

If you want to go to a 20W 50, I would use AMSOIL ARO20W 50 which formulated with the same antiwear benefits as the AMO oil.