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Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:14 pm

I thought someone here was saying the Castrol themselves said not to use any of their oil on flat tappet engines?

Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:40 pm

Hi there all,

I read much of this thread using the search. What I found was that if I want to walk into a FLAPS or Wally and buy off the shelf the best options for my waterboxer is:

Mobil 1 10w-40 and Mobil 1 15w-50

Is one more desirable than the other? This summer seems to be really hot so far, so I thought the heavier one would be better. However heard that heavier will just make the engine run hotter, because its thicker and cant get through the passages as easy.

What do you think? Is one better than the other?

Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:14 pm

Not trying to sound flippant but what does your owners manual say to run? Personally I'd try the lighter weight oil first, just my opinion, but then I'm an air cooled guy and don't know if there's a big difference between the old stuff and the newer waterboxer old stuff. :D Either way though M1 is pretty decent oil.

Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:48 pm

vanagonjetta wrote: What I found was that if I want to walk into a FLAPS or Wally and buy off the shelf the best options for my waterboxer is:

Mobil 1 10w-40 and Mobil 1 15w-50

Is one more desirable than the other?

Your oil temps shouldn't get overly high in a water cooled engine even in the deep south. The Mobile 1, 10w40 high mileage oil sold by Walmart should be fine for year around use except for during the extremes of northern winters.

Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:25 pm

Thanks for the responses,

I was at NAPA and they have a sale on 1 for 5.79 a quart till the end of June. They didn't have any 10w-40 only the 15w-50, I guess I am a sucker for a sale. I looked in the manual it showed a wider range for 15w-50 so I might put that in. Maybe I will head to Walmart and get the 10w-40 instead. Either will probably be fine and am likely over thinking this. Thanks again for the input.

Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:55 am

Tram wrote: My personal experience in twenty years of using it exclusively is that there's just no substitute for Syntec. I even use it in our Mercedes diesels with great results. However, always use conventional oil for break- in... with Syntec*, it never will break in, and that's a problem.
Well, I know from experience in this same engine that Syntec worked beyond my expectations despite having no filter at the time. Redline is excellent oil, but I have not found data comparing the traction coefficient with conventional oil yet. Their own website does not mention that parameter for engine oils. When I have some more answers I may go that way, but I'm comfortable with using the Syntec for now since I know it has less friction that what I have now.

I'm glad I used conventional oil for break in as you say. The new engine took longer than expected to get the rings to seat (short gearing, engine not working hard or long enough). If I tried to break it in with Syntec, I'd probably still be waiting, lol.

Paul

Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:17 pm

Bit the bullet and got the oil today. Yes, there's a bottle of 5w20 in there, which I got so I can play around with the viscosity and bring the pressure down a smidge. The filter is a Wix 51085 which is shorter than the typical F150 filter so it does not hang down as far, but still has the large diameter. Engine seems to like the oil, but I did not get the 200rpm difference like the first time I switched to this oil. I'm thinking it's because the old engine was quite a bit looser. There was only about a 40rpm change in idle speed which is not much, but then again I was going from one synthetic to another. So, if anyone asks me which has a lower traction coefficient between Valvoline VR1 and Castrol Syntec, I'll have to say the evidence supports Syntec as having the better numbers. It does seem to have freed up a pony or two, but of course butt duno readings are highly subjective and prone to emotional influence, lol. It did cruise easily at 85mph, only taking about an inch of total pedal travel. Oil temp measured 179 after a 1 hour trip in 94 degree F ambient temps, with the last couple miles being at elevated speeds. I am going to try Redline oil as well so I can make some comparisons, even if the technical data is not found.

Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:32 am

Okay folks, I might be wrenching the top off a can o'worms here, but having gotten about 30 pages into the thread here at work, I can't find a properly conclusive answer to my application.

My '67 bus is my daily driver plus my adventure vehicle. My SP1600cc engine is about 8 years old and has probably 20-30,000 miles on it, part of that being three Shasta Snow Trips (often higher-rev, lower-speed driving) and currently being my commuter car (about 2-300 miles a week, primarily freeway, about 45% stop-and-go).

I'm in the Bay Area, so mild temps regardless of the time of year. Shasta Trips have run anywhere from 20F to 60F ambient air temp.

I recently replaced my clutch and took the time to degrease the snot out of my engine. It was greasy with a capital GREASY! I've been running Castrol High Mileage 20W-50 just about year-round for a couple years.

My suspicion is that it's been creating too much oil pressure and, thus, causing the greasy engine conditions I've experienced.

I've got a tune up scheduled this month and want to step down to a lighter weight oil, but worry that going from 20w-50 to, say, 10w-30 is going to freak things out. Might I be better off transitioning to 10w-40 for a tune up cycle and then to the 30?

Or am I just crazy? :D

Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:40 am

High pressure in the oil galleys is not going to cause external leaks unless something is really screwy with your engine. Just doesn't work that way. A block or poorly functioning crankcase ventilation system will though.

Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:01 am

Noted. And given the use my engine gets, there's nothing screwy enough with it to prevent it from operating normally enough to get me to and from work each day.

It does eat a little oil (maybe a quart every three weeks), but I also have reminders set to check it every Tuesday and Friday given the amount I drive it.

Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:32 pm

Do you have any gauges on your engine so you can get some numbers to go by? Seeing where you stand with oil temps and pressures may help with oil selection. If it were me I'd switch to 10W-30 and see how it runs but you really need the numbers to see what's going on in the engine. If you want to try lower weight oil you'll need to get some with adequate zinc and phosphorus. This isn't so much a concern with -40 or -50 weights but with -30 oils you need to be aware of this. I'd recommend trying Brad Penn 10W-30.

The oil blown out on your engine could be from a clogged breather. Sometimes they can get pretty grungy inside the oil filler and road draft tube. You may be getting some blow by forcing oil out the pulley opening or a bit of leakage at the oil cooler seals. At your engine's present mileage it may be good to do a compression and leak down test just to keep tabs on how the valves and rings are doing.

My 2 cents.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:33 am

Interesting thread. I'll post what little info I have in the limited time I've owned an ACVW and go from there.

I have no idea what the mileage is on the 1600DP in my Ghia as the odometer is broke @ 40k and I've probably put 2500 miles on it since April. It was missing tins, no thermostat and had the smaller non-doghouse fan. All have been corrected and installed.
It doesn't smoke nor knock and sounds very tight to my ears. I don't think it has 40k on it.
I installed a full flow filter and I'm using a WIX 51515 filter. It holds approx 1/2 qt itself.

After getting it running I changed the oil to straight 30w per the owners manual. I decided to use Shell Rotella T (dino).
Cold oil pressure was approx 40psi, hot oil pressure was alittle under 30psi and it was @ 10psi and alittle lower at idle.
Oil temps avg'ed no hotter than 180 but the ambient temps were still pretty cool (spring).

Once the summer temps hit an avg of 80 I changed to 15w40 Rotella T (dino). The owners manual calls for straight 40w once the temps avg 80 and above.
Cold oil pressure now avgs 60psi and hot pressure avg's 35 - 40 @ 2500rpm. Idle avg's approx 15 after a long interstate run but will increase as the oil cools to approx 20 psi.
At speeds of 60 and below the oil temp avg;s 180 to 190 and will jump up to 210 - 220 @ 65 & 70 mph driving. Interstate running really heats the oil up.

I like the 15w40 for several reasons. I like the the lower viscosity when cold and that it covers the 40w requirement of the owners manual when it's warmed up to operating temps.
I may go to Rotella's syn 15w40 at the next change as I want the higher boiling point and easier cold flowing point.

I like Rotella as it's been used successfully in hvy duty industrial engines (mainly diesel but also gas) and has an excellent track record.
Dave

Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:46 am

Your pressures and temps look normal, a bit higher than normal on pressures but nothing to worry about. Shell Rotella is OK but even for the 15W-40 weight the zinc and phosphorus levels are borderline for VW engines, at around 1000 - 1100 ppm. If you want to try a lighter weight oil that has better ZDDP levels I'd suggest Brad Penn 10W-30.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:48 am

i just put in 5w-30 royal purple, from dino 10w-30. didnt really notice a butt dino difference, engine ran smoother though.
does anyone have any info on royal purple zinc levels? i dont see much info on rp in this thread. i also use the K&N oil filter.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:16 am

The ZDDP levels aren't something usually published by the motor oil manufacturers. There are some exceptions. You can find that info on Brad Penn's and Redline's web sites, for instance. A good place to look for info on additive packages in various oils is to do a search on Bob is the Oil Guy web site. They don't test the oils themselves, it's usually people who have bought and used various types of motor oils and used them in their own cars. They send samples out for analysis and publish the results on BITOG. You'll have to do a search for Royal Purple there.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

Another site that tests motor oils is PQIA, Although they seem to mainly test the lesser name brand oils they do have some from the major oil companies.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/

Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:31 am

DarthWeber wrote: Do you have any gauges on your engine so you can get some numbers to go by? Seeing where you stand with oil temps and pressures may help with oil selection. If it were me I'd switch to 10W-30 and see how it runs but you really need the numbers to see what's going on in the engine. If you want to try lower weight oil you'll need to get some with adequate zinc and phosphorus. This isn't so much a concern with -40 or -50 weights but with -30 oils you need to be aware of this. I'd recommend trying Brad Penn 10W-30.

The oil blown out on your engine could be from a clogged breather. Sometimes they can get pretty grungy inside the oil filler and road draft tube. You may be getting some blow by forcing oil out the pulley opening or a bit of leakage at the oil cooler seals. At your engine's present mileage it may be good to do a compression and leak down test just to keep tabs on how the valves and rings are doing.

My 2 cents.

I've no gauges other than what comes stock with the bus and a tach. I degreased it a bit when it was out for the clutch and am watching it to see where any new oil might be coming from. Yes, I should do a compression test. It's been on the to-do list for far too long.

One of my fellow Shastanistas who has also run up some pretty high-mileage buses in some aggressive conditions and I've decided to try some Castrol HD30 for 3,000 miles and see if it makes any difference. If not, I may just stay with the 20w-50.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:17 pm

I just did an oil change with Mobil 1 10w-30 Advanced Synthetic. This is the same oil I used lat time so nothing should of changed.

However, after my oil change I went out for a cruise on the freeway any my CHT temp was around 322-330 def F. Typically my car sits around 300-305. Not sure what is causing this or if it is the new oil. Any input is appreciated.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:32 pm

Bmueller wrote: I just did an oil change with Mobil 1 10w-30 Advanced Synthetic. This is the same oil I used lat time so nothing should of changed.

However, after my oil change I went out for a cruise on the freeway any my CHT temp was around 322-330 def F. Typically my car sits around 300-305. Not sure what is causing this or if it is the new oil. Any input is appreciated.

Your engine oil selection should have minimal effect on your head temperatures.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:46 pm

That is what I thought too. The day before the valves were adjusted and that did not affect the head temp either. This is kind of strange... Guess I will have to investigate further.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:17 pm

Maybe a rag or something got sucked into the fan?? :shock: