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Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:15 pm

DarthWeber wrote: Maybe a rag or something got sucked into the fan?? :shock:
Top of the shroud seems to be a popular place the set rags and paper towels when working on the engine, with the expected results if they fall forward. Other possibilities are the tarboard being pulled off the firewall by the fan at high RPM (mine did that), the mixture leaning out a bit, or maybe power shifting and the fan sucking in a smartcar :lol:

Paul

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:41 pm

DarthWeber wrote: Maybe a rag or something got sucked into the fan?? :shock:

OH shit...lol

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:08 pm

Well, it's better than losing a piece of Chicken Pesto Pizza in there! :D

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:10 pm

i sucked a screwdriver in there once. The fan ground a half inch off the handle.

both the fan and the screwdriver still work ok

Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:20 am

So, if this is slightly off-topic, I apologize.

I've read (I think it was) RAtwell's diatribe on running oil-related gauges (pressure, temp, etc.) and how they don't tell the real story of what's going down inside the engine.

What's the general consensus here...is there one or two that are ideal or is it all just something that takes your attention away from the road and causes your internal OCD habits to obsess about it?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:31 pm

Gauges are a necessary luxury IMO. There are gauges that aren't too terribly accurate but there are accurate gauges out there....for a price. Most VW guys don't want to fork over the dough for them, but then again, you really don't need to. A simple set of VDO's CHT and oil temp gauges, while not the most accurate, do allow you to see where your engine operates at under various circumstances and if the gauges trend out of that "established" range then you'll know something is up.

I have no experience with Dakota Digital but I hear everyone likes them and they are accurate. Aircraft Spruce also sells many different types of gauges that seem to be good.

Anyway, bottom line is, it's better to at least have some way to monitor temps and pressures than to have nothing at all. If you have a good combo that's tuned well you have nothing to worry about but if something should happen even a lower priced set of gauges could help you save your engine from disaster.

Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:25 pm

DarthWeber wrote: Gauges are a necessary luxury IMO. There are gauges that aren't too terribly accurate but there are accurate gauges out there....for a price. Most VW guys don't want to fork over the dough for them, but then again, you really don't need to. A simple set of VDO's CHT and oil temp gauges, while not the most accurate, do allow you to see where your engine operates at under various circumstances and if the gauges trend out of that "established" range then you'll know something is up.

I have no experience with Dakota Digital but I hear everyone likes them and they are accurate. Aircraft Spruce also sells many different types of gauges that seem to be good.

Anyway, bottom line is, it's better to at least have some way to monitor temps and pressures than to have nothing at all. If you have a good combo that's tuned well you have nothing to worry about but if something should happen even a lower priced set of gauges could help you save your engine from disaster.

I will take a good set of ears and a sharp nose over gauges any day.

Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:54 pm

What does Hot smell like?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:30 pm

And what does low oil pressure sound like?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:02 am

I installed my temporary mechanical gauge today to get the pressure numbers with the new oil and weight. (sorry, no graph this time!)

Oil: Gastrol Syntec
Weight: 5w 28
Pressure at idle: 13psi
1,000 rpm: 14psi
2,000 rpm: 30psi
3,000 rpm: 40psi
4,000 rpm: 48psi

Measurements were taken after driving 100+ miles in 84 degree ambient temperatures, mostly freeway in agressive traffic.
I'm kinda feeling the numbers are acceptable and I should quit monkeying with viscosity...

Paul

Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:48 am

Bruce wrote: And what does low oil pressure sound like?

Thirty years ago I work with a guy who correctly diagnosed a shiny new Chevy 350 as not having oil to one of the rod bearings, yet the engine had absolutely normal oil pressure. A lot of people including his boss, the dealer mechanic, and several factory reps wouldn't believe him, and discounted the almost inaudible tick that he was hearing. 12K miles down the road when the engine blew it as found out that the crank didn't have the oil drilling to one of the rod bearings. Experience counts.

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:18 am

For mere mortals without super sensitive hearing to hear a nearly inaudible tick (in a wv with those silly solid lifters that tick constantly) while cruising down the freeway, what do you suggest? An AAA card and a couple backup engines? How often should one pull over and sniff their engine?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:02 am

Altema wrote: I installed my temporary mechanical gauge today to get the pressure numbers with the new oil and weight. (sorry, no graph this time!)

Oil: Gastrol Syntec
Weight: 5w 28
Pressure at idle: 13psi
1,000 rpm: 14psi
2,000 rpm: 30psi
3,000 rpm: 40psi
4,000 rpm: 48psi

Measurements were taken after driving 100+ miles in 84 degree ambient temperatures, mostly freeway in agressive traffic.
I'm kinda feeling the numbers are acceptable and I should quit monkeying with viscosity...

Paul
Those are great numbers.
You can stop your quest for viscosity related isssues....till the weather changes.

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:12 am

yamaducci wrote: Altema wrote:
Oil: Castrol Syntec
Weight: 5w-20
Pressure at idle: 13psi
1,000 rpm: 14psi
2,000 rpm: 30psi
3,000 rpm: 40psi
4,000 rpm: 48psi
Measurements were taken after driving 100+ miles in 84 degree ambient temperatures, mostly freeway in agressive traffic.
I'm kinda feeling the numbers are acceptable and I should quit monkeying with viscosity...Paul

Those are great numbers.
You can stop your quest for viscosity related isssues....till the weather changes.

^^^Agreed!^^^ With time, as your engine wears, those numbers will drop a bit but still be "optimal" for tens of thousands of miles. Congrats for staying with your quest Altema, ya done good! :wink:

PS feel free to stop at the side of the road any time and go back and sniff your engine! :lol:

Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:16 am

bugninva wrote: For mere mortals without super sensitive hearing to hear a nearly inaudible tick (in a wv with those silly solid lifters that tick constantly) while cruising down the freeway, what do you suggest? An AAA card and a couple backup engines? How often should one pull over and sniff their engine?

You need to pay attention whether you have gauges or just use normal human senses. I have never found that gauges prevent all that many failures. When an engine fails from low oil it is not unusual at all for the owner/operator to tell you the oil pressure has been falling for the last month or more.

Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:26 pm

Thanks John and Darth, the engine feels happy too, lol.

By the way, in case anyone looks at this and thinks "where the heck did he get 5w28 oil?", I used a simple mix of 5w20 and 5w30.

Paul

Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:07 pm

Now, about what hot and low sounds like...

You can smell hot when oil deposits, road grime, or coatings on your engine start baking at abnormal temperatures. We're at a disadvantage because all our "hot stuff" is behind us, unless we stop or are using the heater. The one time my cooling flaps stuck shut, I was tipped off by the extra airflow from the heater vents, and the smell of baking paint from the cylinders (I used a very light coat of black which actually helps cooling).

Low oil is usually accompanied but clicking and tapping, which makes it tough with an air cooled engine that taps when normal. I guess you would have to be aware of increases in loudness or a change in pattern which would indicate a new source of noise. I've never run an AC VW low on oil, but I DO know what a loose cam gear sounds like! My mother was a bug killer, but usually destroyed those motors alone. It's been my experience that when you hear the symptoms of oil starvation, damage has already been done.

In Wildthings defense though, I've rejected a lot of used cars based on subtle sounds, and even place a hand on the engine to get a feel for it's "heartbeat". I bought one that had a different kind of click in the valvetrain, which turned out to be a broken rocker arm pedestal and required a head swap. My father had a VW mechanic from Germany (named Klaus, of course) and he could diagnose some issues by sound as a car drove into his shop.

Paul

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:10 pm

Oh yeah, Klaus, I know him!! :lol:

Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:05 pm

Wildthings wrote:

You need to pay attention whether you have gauges or just use normal human senses. I have never found that gauges prevent all that many failures. When an engine fails from low oil it is not unusual at all for the owner/operator to tell you the oil pressure has been falling for the last month or more.

I hope you realize that reply was just a little ribbing... when the proverbial shit hits the proverbial fan, gauge, ear, nose, eyes, they are all pretty much equal....

I lost an oilpump once in the interstate.... I saw it on the gauge, felt it in the seat, and heard it all at about the same time... and that time was too late... Dropped a valve once, engine was running *great*, two head temp gauges showed normal temperatures... oil pressure and temperature was great... I heard it and felt it at about the same time, was too late... all that said, three times I have had gauges save my bacon(that I can recall off the top of my head)... once when mouse decided to build a fricking condo and give birth to a village of babies in my fan, once when a bird built it's castle in my fan, and once when a fancy fitting and hose that requires no clamp blew off... without the gauges would I have ben able to save the engine? I'm not sure...

folks can, and should, do what makes them comfortable.... your senses or your gauges, there are no garantees, and most catastrophic failures are just that....

Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:36 am

Altema wrote: Thanks John and Darth, the engine feels happy too, lol.

By the way, in case anyone looks at this and thinks "where the heck did he get 5w28 oil?", I used a simple mix of 5w20 and 5w30.

Paul

Good to know, thought it was a typo at 1st :D

Dave