TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1963 VW Crew Cab Tow truck with dual motors the saga begins!

Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:25 am

1963 VW Crew Cab Tow truck with dual motors!
Well this VW I just purchased and have yet to receive is taking on a life of its own and the history is slowly coming together of how it came together. I found it for the first time on Vintagebus.com the 3rd week in March 07. Photos were very interesting and the owner mentioned that it was for sale. His postings were from last year and I thought it was already sold but for the heck of it something made me email him to see if it was still for sale. I had no response for a week and almost forgot about it when all of a sudden I had an email from the owner saying it was currently for sale on EBay. So I checked it out and it still had a day and a half left on the auction! I had some questions for the owner about the bus and called him right away. I was talking to him about the bus and he said it had the buy now option on the bus and to my luck I still had some money left on my equity line of credit on my house so bought it on the spot!
The owner’s father bought it for him as he did not have the funds at the time. His dad traded a Porsche 914-6 for it and he still could not have the motor! He ended up trading a 1986 BMW 325 I for the motor! The previous owner Dave moved out east and he did not have time for it. It pained him to sell the bus but it needed to go as it was sitting in his hands for 10 years and probably 15 years when he bought it from the previous owner Paul at Baja Auto. So it has been off the road for nearly 25 years!
There was much talking and the thought of the dual motors could run independently but I just found out more details today on this magical beast. The Dave’s dad just talked to the creator of the VW, Marvin Norton, and he told of how it was made. We also thought that this was in a vw mag back in the 1970’s, this was false as the creator was a low key man that might have took it to a few shows at the most and maybe a shot on local TV briefly. I guess this is why I have not been able to find any info on this VW from anyone in the VW community. It did however spend most of its time working in a vw shop as a tow truck with it reported of moving 20 to 40 cars a day around the VW shop it was used at. The creator would drive it 100 miles just to pick up Vw’s for his shop. The shop is Norton Enterprises in Burlington WA a small town about 44 miles from Canada.
The thought was the motors were stock blocks with several mods to make them work upside down. Not true at all! LOL! The motor was started Oct. 1977 and finished April 1979. It started with 88 mm pistons which he put on 2200miles on and later was bored out to 92mm pistons on both motors and created a 1852cc on both motor giving it a 114 hp at 4000 rpm! Everything was ported balanced and blue printed. All heads are single port heads, the Creator mentioned he wanted to go dual port but did not get around to it. From the photos it looks like all the single port heads are connected together around the back of the motors to maybe one carburetor that is now missing. It also looks to be a dry sump pump connected to the oil pump on the top motor and feeder tube for dry sump connected on top of the upside-down motor. It has 2 massive oil coolers that hold whopping 9 quarts oil! He logged over 82k miles on it with it all hopped up! He had to keep adjusting things as he built it, must have had a heat problem with the need of all that oil. The Cranks were welded on and then machined back down in what I believe was to get the pulley to match up. Over $600 dollars alone was spent on the pulley system alone. The motor is currently locked up and only turns a little each way; the motor apparently sat outside more many years and must be full of water now.
The Crew cab does support a winch for the Towing part. The front beam is bug and lowered. The rear gear reduction boxes are turned 90 degrees which moved the rear tires back and lowered the bus 4 inches. The rear seats are taken out for roll out tool boxes and the front dash has been cut for many gauges. I have also written to Burlington Washington town and library for any information on this crazy truck and have had a nice person that said they would help. My intentions are to preserve it and to also enjoy driving it around. I love history and this thing surly had that! As for the Dual motors, I hope to make a display for them to take to shows and hopefully one day we will be able to get those running for all too see. If we can get the motors running well maybe we can put them back in the bus just for driving to shows. I will stick with a stock motor to start with and then go to bigger ones as we get more funds. He did run over a 2100 cc motor in it at one time. Marvin Norton also dabbled into making other variations of the vw motor. One was cut in half with two pistons opposed and one was half a block making a inline 2 cylinder motor! So Marvin was some sort of Dr. Frankenstein playing with VW motors creating things just to do them. I don’t know what happened to them but hopefully I will be able to talk to Marvin Norton some time to get more info. More to come as the story unfolds. :wink:
UPDATE with new photos!
Photos here, http://dezionz.com/bus
Later, Erick

Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:30 am

Sounds pretty interesting and you already found out a ton of information on it. I'd be interested in seeing some photos of the engines and how his modifications work together to provide power to tow cars.

Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:45 am

http://dezionz.com/bus
I just added this link for more photos, I am seeing the photos for the first time like you. Wow, I have got my work cut out for me! lOL!
Erick

Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:40 am

The carburetor intake looks like a regular old-school VW big-carburetor intake manifold modified for both engines. You should be able to bolt a single Weber(?) back on there.

It looks like one of the fan shroud still has the flaps installed? Sort of ironic, since so many backyard mechanics threw those out.

Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:24 am

I also notice the flaps still installed on the upper motor that has little of its shrould left. I guess it really needed the flaps to direct the air up to the 2nd motor that is ovious lacking a fan of its own.
thanks
Erick

EverettB wrote: The carburetor intake looks like a regular old-school VW big-carburetor intake manifold modified for both engines. You should be able to bolt a single Weber(?) back on there.

It looks like one of the fan shroud still has the flaps installed? Sort of ironic, since so many backyard mechanics threw those out.

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:25 am

Sweet!

I'd been wondering ever since I saw it what they did with the flywheel on the second engine, but now I see in the detail shots that they just left it out altogether! *slaps head* Simplicity itself... though I wonder how tight those belts have to be. If you're cranking the starter on the bottom one, does it have enough juice to turn both of them, or does the bottom one fire first and turn the upper engine?

Hmmm... out of curiosity, what do the gauges show? Does each engine have a temp gauge? ...a tachs? ...etc.

It would have been SO cool to see this thing running, man, I really wish you luck getting these back into shape, it'd be a treat to see it at some of the shows!

Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:31 am

Yea i am sure the end play is a bit off on the upper one but maybe they did some thing in side to make up for it? mabey on the pully side it was adjusted?
I don't know anymore than you on the gauges side, I am sure he had one for each engine to compair the two.
On cranking the engine, I would guess he might have had a high torque starter and fired both of them up together. All it took is one cylinder to start it up and then Veroooom! If we get to the point in starting it I think it might have to go on Video! :twisted: LOL!
Erick

Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:15 am

Wow - that thing is a monster - good luck - keep us all posted

Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:10 pm

I think i see how he did without the fly wheel, in one of the photos it looks like a adaptor is there between the flywheel nut and where you use the shimms to adjust the endplay. Hmmm. By joe it might actully work! And it did for 82k miles! lOL! I am still soaking in the new photos and i see new things all the time. I think i see dead people, or is that just a Oldsmobile radio! OUch!
Erick

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:30 pm

Wouldn't it throw a ton of oil everywhere without a flywheel? I can't imagine a motor without one, especially if you want it to rev at the same rate as the bottom one?

Good luck with that project- pretty cool.

Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:51 am

Well the latest is from my shipper
Quote.
"Hi Erick - we had a carrier out to pick up the VW, and he cannot load it -- with it being converted to a tow vehicle, with a boom on the back, and 2 extra motors on it.... we won't be able to get any carrier to haul this on a car carrier.. I believe you told me it was modified, but didn't say that there was a boom added -- and the extra motors... that is just outside the parameters of what carriers can take on a car hauler"

so, i am looking at other haulers and if anyone has a sugestions please ask
Thanks
Erick

Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:48 am

Well I just placed a pickup order with another trucking company that happed to be cheaper. They had previously picked up my Jagdwagen (vanagon hunter Crew cab) from California a few years ago. I had to give them the dimensions of the truck,
Bus is 78 inches tall, 6 ft 6inches
15 ft 10 inches long including boom. Boom 3 ft long.
They said no problem, it is shorter than my 66 deluxe with roof rack that I park in my garage. Now I am just waiting on when they will pick it up.
later
Erick

Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:24 pm

VERY NICE :lol: PICS PICS PICS

Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:29 pm

Hope to have more pics when i get it. I still have not heard of when it will get picked up.
later

Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:04 pm

:lol:
Well, i just got a voice mail from the previous owner and he said it was picked up I believe Thusday! Hurray! I was at Merle Fest and did not get the message till Sunday, problay due to high volume of people at the fest talking on phones. It sounds like it should be here by Thursday. The PO said it was coming on a flat bed behind a pickup truck and that the driver was really sick and wanted to find a room to sleep it off. So I am hoping for no more drama over this cool vw!
Oh funny thing at Merle fest, there were guys that do sculptures in big piles of sand and this year it happend to be that they made a broken down VW bus with Hippies all hanging out of it and that Doc Watson was in a Towtruck getting ready to tow it off! LOL! For those that don't know who Doc Watson is he is a blind guitar player in the Blue grass scene.
Anyway I will let you know what happens next. Hopefully pictures.
later,
Erick

Thu May 03, 2007 11:02 am

It's here! :D
Just unloaded it this morning and had a hour or so to check it out.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=VW%20JUNKY
The Good, cool Blaupunt CB radio!, out side looks good enought for a rat rod.
The Bad, the back seat area is really butchered and the floor was replaced by 1970's sheet metal. In fact the whole body work is bondo fiberglass and sheet metal. Gas tank is off of some american car? Holds maybe 25 gallions! or so and the gas cap is now located in the bed of the truck(not bad but different). The rockers are shot but will keep as is for now untill the full resto many years from now. Wiring was redone compleatly but not from a new harness but with just wires. I maybe able to figure it out or it maybe time for a new wiring harness.
So as it stands it is one very cool bus!
First will be just cleaning it out and documenting it with all the photos i can take. Looks like I get to practice welding. I will redo the brakes and figure out what they did with the front beam as it is lowered and shorted. Hopefully i can put on some disk brakes while I am at it.
Lots to do and will keep you informed as I go. I needed a good fun project, all the other busses i have i started to go stock which is a kind of headach keeping it all orgional to a point so and I really needed a outlet of being creative yet still have a history piece that is fun and different. And I believe this will be the ticket!
later :wink:
Erick[url][/url][url][/url]

Thu May 03, 2007 11:30 am

that bus looks like a tweekers dream come true!

Thu May 03, 2007 12:54 pm

It has a volkswagen generator on the bottom one, and what looks like a chevy alternator ran through the belt system.. Interesting to say the least!

Thu May 03, 2007 6:15 pm

where to start, and will it ever end? Good luck

Thu May 03, 2007 6:35 pm

Mikee wrote: where to start, and will it ever end? Good luck

yea Cancer is pretty good on this one,
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=VW%20JUNKY
Clean up will be first and it will never end! LOL! Do they ever, heck i have seen museum VW's come back to the street after the MUseum closes so it really never ends. Also seen people put mega dollars in a VW and then wreck it the next week. So sad. As long as you are still having fun with the hobbie keep doing it. I bought my first new VW after having 10 cars and having the ones that were runing all die within a week of each other and then i had to borrow a car to get to work! OUch! That change me for quite sometime and I kind of pulled out of the hobbie for awhile. This bus is making me go with just busses for now. Just sold my 66 beetle this week and will be working on geting rid of my 73 german army thing later this year. I would keep them all but I need to back up and get my act toghter with money and then get a building to put these cool things inside to work on them. But that is another story.
later