TheSamba.com :: View topic - riNR's Mid Travel 4 Seater Woods Rail Build

Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:10 am

In most US states you need a machanical back up. That is why there is a cable.

Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:18 am

Chris,
My only concern with the transfered Beetle title would be in the worst case scenario involving an accident or death of others. I would think that you would be open to the insurance companies finding an out in covering you, and subsequent legal actions against you. In this lovely society we live in where idiots get paid for spilling hot coffee on their lap at McD's and insurance corporations not honouring policies I would be very careful with that.

Eddie,
Thanks for the compliment but I'd describe my skills as quite limited. It takes me forever to get anything done, and sometimes things need doing twice...DHOH! In my mind the real stand out fabricators on here are SMHO, Skidmark, Baja4, Baja5, and many many more. I am always in awe of the creations of Getrdone. Have you seen the pictures of his 4X4 deisel Econoline?...a masterpeice. I admire anyone who is just willing to try, and pursue on dispite set backs.

Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:32 pm

Took the rail out for a short blast in some trails close to home. When I got back I could hear the brakes rubbing on the mounting plate. I thought I had rebent my new spindle stubs while jumping, but upon further inspection it turned out one of the three bolts holding on the caliper mounting bracket had come loose. Whew! That was a relief I tell ya. Thought I'd be shilling out some more $ and time. I love quick fixes if only they happened more often than the pricey ones. I'm sure I'll be finding more loose bolts as time goes on.

Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:52 pm

Thanks, but I am definately no fabricator.Need an engine rebuilt, no problem but my welding skills are limited.I just do a lot of research.your car looks great. When are you going to bring it down to a real desert and give it a shakedown.We'd love to see you and the car in person.

Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:07 am

I think the closest I'll make it to a desert is taking it to Silver Lakes, MI this summer, but I guess that is more like dunes then desert. I keep thinking I'd like to do a combination Vegas (not to gamble) trip combined with Sand Sports super show trip one day....no buggy though.

Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:16 am

riNR wrote: Chris,
My only concern with the transfered Beetle title would be in the worst case scenario involving an accident or death of others. I would think that you would be open to the insurance companies finding an out in covering you, and subsequent legal actions against you. In this lovely society we live in where idiots get paid for spilling hot coffee on their lap at McD's and insurance corporations not honouring policies I would be very careful with that.

Thats definately a concern with all the sue happy people these days. If I go this route, I'll inform the insurance that it's a rail. My issue is if I go the home built title route, I'll have to pass emissions just like a 2008 car since thats what they will consider it. It can be done but it'd be pretty difficult to get a single 2 barrel setup with a taller aftermarket manifiold to run clean enough at idle to pass.

I was trying to figure out if I was going to safety wire anything, the caliper bolts may be one item that I end up drilling for that purpose. Looking at the bolts, I'm worried they may be an item that tends to loosen up. Along those same lines, I'm going to do the sleeve trick with the IRS piviot bolts. I saw it in the bugs and buggies book, take a short section (1") of 1.5" tubing drill it for a cotter pin and weld it to the IRS piviot mounting ears over the heads of the piviot bolts. If they back out the cotter pin holds the bolt from completly coming out.

Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:32 am

I live in NC. I've had 2 rails, the first was titled as a 74 VW Beetle, and the present one is titled as a 71 VW Beetle. I didn't try to be sneeky with anything, it was ok'd by the insurance company and everything. With the first rail they wanted to see it, and the one now I asked them is they'd like to see it first and they said there was no need. They just confirmed the VIN off of the old VW parts and that was it. Not on the title, but in the paperwork it is listed as a "Kit Car" and there is no comprehensive insurance available, only liability.

Also, here if the vehicle is 35 years or older you don't need ANY inspection. No safety no emissions. It's up to you to keep your butt safe!

Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:18 pm

I got my safety standards certiificate today! Yippeee!!!! Now I just have to get a emmisions test certificate for it. I bought a Magnaflow Catalytic Converter for it the welds into the exhaust pipe. The mechanics at the shop did a sniff test on it and figure with the converter welded in that it hsould run clean enough to pass. Might look goofy but it will keep the cops of my back and better for the environment. Where I live a vehicle requires emmisions testing every two years.
Anyone ever use on of the cat. converters?

Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:09 pm

Been jumping through hoops to try and get insurance, license plates and emmisions pass.
Here's what I did tonight. Bet you won't see many catalytic converters on rails now will ya?

And I notice a nice little design flaw tonight as well:

Note the bottom shock mount bolt is bent up from the pull on the limit straps....go figure???? Anyone got some ideas. I was thinking of cutting the spacer on a 45 degree angle and sandwiching the limit strap between my cut and bolting it all back together. I igure that way I can get the pull on the limit strap as tight to the shock as possible.

Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:27 pm

The limit strap looks like an easy fix.I was just wondering about the cat.Are you running a feedback system on your rail.And does it need to be emission tested to be legal.Just curios.That cat looks like one of the weld in ones that everyone here uses to get a 1 time smog.The problem that most people don't realize is that without a good O2 sensor and feedback closed loop system a cat won't work properly.

Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:38 pm

Yup, need the emmisions test to get it plated for the road. I don't know about the O2 sensor and all that. The guy at the shop where I bought it said I didn't need all that, and that they put them in all the time. I ran it tonight and seems to have cleaned it up quite a bit. The engine runs quite rich but I don't have a clue how to rectify that.

Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:48 pm

Normally what the primary function of the O2 is to switch the fuel mixture between rich and lean.When there is a rich mixture there is a high concentration of CO(fuel),so the O2 will tell the computer to lean out the mixture.When the mixture is lean there is a high concentration of O2.Then the Cerium in the cat will store the O2.When the mixture goes back rich the reaction in the cat releases the O2 and it is combined with the CO to produce CO2.If there is no feedback the cat will be less efficient.Not that is wont clean up your emissions for awhile but if you run a cat too rich for too long they will be damaged and probably melt internally.I don't know if it is something that you can ad to your PCm or not.Most aftermarket computers that i have seen aren't designed to run a cat type feedback system but you never know.I would definately look into it.

Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:01 am

riNR,
Is that a 1/2" bolt on the lower shock mount? Just from seeing the picture I would suggest using a shorter bolt (grade 8). I see why you spaced it out (so the strap clears the shock) but it's giving it allot of leverage with the long bolt. I'll be curious how it gets resolved b/c I was going to do the same thing. I'm not running coilovers so I'll be able to locate the end of the limit strap end much closer to the shock.

You angle cut idea sound reasonable and worth a try.

As for the Cat, I'd make it removable and pull it after the inspection. Of coure I'm somewhat antisocial and have been known to buck the system ocassionally. Can't think of how you'd use an o2 sensor with feedback unless you were running F/I or an emissions carb that could adjust mixture electrically.

Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:35 am

Baja 5,
Thanks for the information. I am running the stock computer that was in the original 88 Turbo Coupe. I never set that part of the car up so I'm pretty clueless as to what's going on with that whole aspect. Where would the 02 sensor be located if it had one? The closer I can get this thing running to clean and original the happier I would be.

Caromin,
That's a1/2" bolt in there, grade 9 or something like that. I'm going to try getting it tight to the shock with the method I described. The way it looks now I'm paranoid the bolts going to break off.

Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:27 am

Is this the O2 sensor?

What does this thing do? ( where the hose is missing) and what would that hose attach to?

this thing has wires going nowhere all over it. I figure the more I can return to stock configuration the better it will run.

Baja5, How does the cat put 02 back into the system? By tube on cat?

Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:36 am

That IS the o2 sensor, is it hooked up.If so then you are probably good.There are 4 elements in a cat.Rhodium,platinim,paladium and Cerium.Everyone thinks that a cat Reburns fuel to clean things up.In reality it is more of a chemical reaction that happens.What an oxygen sensor does to work with a cat is, the o2 sensor actually creates it's own voltage usually between .1 and .9 volts.When higher concentrations of fuel enter the exhaust the voltage goes high,.9 or so volts.this high voltage tells the pcm to lean out the mixture.as it leans out the higher o2 going through the exhaust causes the voltage to drop to .1 or so.If you graph this pattern on a scope you should see a nice even wave form with a centerline of .45 volts.So working with the Cat to store and release O2 the cat actually combines excess co with stored o2 so make carbon dioxide.Which is good.However if you have a biased or lazy oxygen sensor your mixtrue will go too rich of run too lean.You really need to scope it to tell.If your pcm is stock and the wiring harness is stock you might be able to hook up a scanner and check things out though.As for that missing hose, that looks like a blow off valve.It should probably have a hose going from it to the intake manifold.

Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:54 am

That is the O2 sensor and the other unit looks like part of the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) system. I wouldn't worry about the O2 sensor, they are used in a closed loop system where the O2 level is monitored and the fuel mixture is adjusted accordingly by the car's computer. Typically this type of system will have an air pump connected so that fresh air is injected into the converter to mix with the CO and HC gasses which are then converted by the media inside the unit to significantly lower the levels. Take a look at a carburated engine that came from the factory with a cat. conv. and you'll notice the carb's nothing like a regular carb due to the pollution control circuitry. Your system will be an open loop system where no feedback is provided and the fuel/air mixture doesn't get adjusted for that purpose. All newer systems are closed loop and require a computer and ether a carb that is capable of that adjustment or FI. To retro fit it into a vw motor would be a fairly extensive undertaking for that reason. Your fuel/air ratio becomes really important when you run a converter because if the ratio varies much outside the converters operating parameters the media (pellets) eventually become contaminated (coated) rendering it ineffective, an open loop system is going to have a shortened life compared to newer systems for that reason. One thing to be aware of is the media can melt down inside the cat. conv. if it gets too hot. Definately a bad situation because it can cause an exhaust blockage or even a fire in some situations. From what I've seen the add-on systems on older vehicles are mostly used just to pass emissions and many get pulled right after the engine passes.

Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:31 am

Caromin, why don't you think it will run in closed loop.It is an EFI engine with a stock ECU and the O2 appears to be hooked up.

Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:26 pm

baja5 wrote: Caromin, why don't you think it will run in closed loop.It is an EFI engine with a stock ECU and the O2 appears to be hooked up.

Duh! I thought riNR was running an ACVW motor, forget the above post and let 'er rip.

Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:02 pm

Is this the tube that needs to be joined to the catalytic converter? The was a rubber plug over it that I pulled off to take this shot.

If so, what type of tube needs to be used? Will that tube part on the cat get so hot to burn rubber hose?

Thanks for all the information so far guys. It is helping a lot! If I can get this thing running clean I would be super thrilled, as here you need to do an emmision test every two years.