TheSamba.com :: View topic - what is a 56-59 lowlight worth

Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:41 am

Does anyone know what a mint condition 56-59 low light with a judson or okrasa motor numbers matching car that is completly restored worth?
considering one . Any info would be appreciated

Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:42 am

Pictures help a lot.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:48 am

Im looking at restoring one so i dont have finished pictures but just consider it a pan off restoration

Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:02 am

46split wrote: Im looking at restoring one so i dont have finished pictures but just consider it a pan off restoration

Probably worth less than you're going to spend restoring it.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:33 am

is 25-30 out of range if i decide to sell it

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:14 am

46split wrote: is 25-30 out of range if i decide to sell it

In my opinion, probably so. It would have to be a unique buyer at the right time and for the right reason. I think the Ghia lowlight market is soft and not a huge demand unless it is a vert. Verts are a completely different market base. If you are going to spend that much time and money on a full detailed restoration, it should be because you want to keep it and enjoy. Look at the classifieds, there are a handful of nice lowlights that have been listed over a year now and still havent sold and a few are OG stock from $10k to $30k. OG condition always seems to be more desirable than a full resto in my opinion because you know its history. Also, narrowing down model year would be helpful as well. For instance, an early 56 might be more desirable than a 59 to most Ghia people willing to spend that kind of money. Also depends on your restoration; is it going to be stock OG with period correct acces and lots of NOS parts? a color scheme that is desirable to the masses will also be tough? A buyer spending that kind of money isnt going to want to buy a fully restored ghia in Black just to strip it down all over again to paint it Lizard Green, etc.. I think its risky to think that kind of money can be fetched without knowing more details such year, hardtop/vert, type of resto, Use of OG/NOS Vs repop parts, etc... Again, just my opinion.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:53 am

First, do a search of this forum. thom did a cost breakdown of the restoration on his 56'. If my memory serves me right, I believe that early into his project he was @ $12-15k. I don't believe that he had any engine work in that figure, I could be wrong. (A pan off restoration to me is a complete rebuild so you would need to include motor & trans-axle expense). and he has the ability to do most of the work himself. I'm pretty sure that if you asked thom what his labor cost would be if he had to pay for the work that he did, you could easly double his cost in the restoration.

Second, your question is too vague in reference to years (56-59) and options. In my opinion, a 56 numbers matching car with an Okrassa is worth much more than a 59 with a Judson. Judsons are cool but i don't think that they add that much value.

Unless you plan on doing all the work yourself, I'm not sure you could come out ahead even if it was a vert.

Wiggy is (as usual) right on target with this one.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:21 am

46split wrote: is 25-30 out of range if i decide to sell it

If it's a really nicely restored Okrasa Ghia and you are looking to get something near the 30K range an auction like RM or Jackson -Barrett is probably the only venue that will attract special interest buyers with that kind of money to shell out on a VW.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:33 am

I have mine for sale Pending. 58 cabrio , only clip ever was under the spare tire and new floors.
Nice paint , new floors, rebuilt tranny ,6V, Okrasa TSV1300s,with correct blue oil canister, oetinger Nos gauge, Ghia trip, Ghia Tach, Kienzle ash tray clock(not working), OG empi Rader wheels(4) w/continental new tires.
Hirshmann red tip , Blaupunkt radio, old og Typ 14 coco mats, and original mats(not repro) ,euroheadlights, albert mirrors, sperwolf shift lock. lowered the righ way,

I local friend offer me $30K max, sale is pending but I havent seeany money I was looking for at least 35K, , I was thinking on advertasing here in the samba, but beacuse of my location is hard that someone will be interested. anyawy if dont see $ by next week it will in the classifieds
I have a house on texas perhaps I can drive there, so its more atractive to US buyers . car was bought in Texas 9 years ago.

Omar

1952 356 1500
1953 356 Cabrio 1500
1956 speedster
1955 microbus
1958 KG Cabrio Okrasa

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:41 am

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/331599.jpg

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:48 am

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/331604.jpg

Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:47 pm

Tough question.

On lowlight cars, even "mint condition" and "restored" can be fairly meaningless. Top prices ($15-20K for Coupes, $15-35K for Cabriolets) are fetched by top examples that are either completely untouched, low-mileage originals in fine condition and known provenance, or by very sympathetically restored vehicles with keen attention to [original] detail. Having an original and correct Okrasa kit tends to add $5k or so to the resale value; a Judson $3 or so. In other lands, such as Australia where the KG seems to be the yuppie cool fun car du jour, or Japan, resale prices are rather higher.

To undertake a full restoration to a high standard would undoubtedly devour all of the market value "equity" between the buy-in on a rough example and full resale (even Barrett-Jackson prices). Restoration prices compare favorably (in a bad way) to Porsche 356 costs. Our pal Thom has proven this recently.

Customized cars, or nice looking cars with clumsy attention to detail simply have been bringing in less, and I believe, will continue to do so as the Karmann Ghia gains more and more respect as a collectible car.

FWIW, There have only been four or five lowlights that I would consider "sympathetically restored with a keen attention to original detail" in the last ten years, worldwide. Many well-known show winners present well, but have a host of incorrect details. Surprisingly, the hobby magazines aren't savvy enough to know what they are looking at when they do features on these cars, so they perpetuate a lot of misinformation on what is original and what isn't.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:05 pm

I will say one thing, I took my car to a few all makes shows and I got some sick offers. I was almost tempted.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:19 pm

Wiggy wrote: I will say one thing, I took my car to a few all makes shows and I got some sick offers. I was almost tempted.

Offers don't mean squat unless there is cash on the barrel. Especially at shows, people talk all kinds of crap knowing that the owner is not likely to part with their treasure. The only real way to look at value is to find a comperable car that sold recently on the open market...not some inside job. I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to shell out $35k for a restored low light coupe unless their is something really remarkable about it. The market for Ghias is just not that hot and doesn't seem like it ever will get hot, its too much of a niche car, always was, likely always will be.
--Dan

Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:32 pm

Braukuche wrote: Wiggy wrote: I will say one thing, I took my car to a few all makes shows and I got some sick offers. I was almost tempted.

Offers don't mean squat unless there is cash on the barrel. Especially at shows, people talk all kinds of crap knowing that the owner is not likely to part with their treasure. The only real way to look at value is to find a comperable car that sold recently on the open market...not some inside job. I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to shell out $35k for a restored low light coupe unless their is something really remarkable about it. The market for Ghias is just not that hot and doesn't seem like it ever will get hot, its too much of a niche car, always was, likely always will be.
--Dan

Cash was on the barrel.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:26 pm

Kevin,

I cant imagine your car is easily replaceable if you did sell it. Regardless of price. They dont pop up much in that kind of condition.

Rich

Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:54 pm

Hey guys thank you all for your input. I have decided not to make this purshase based on your feedback.it was the 57 for sale here in jacksonville that is numbers matching. My plan was to do a full pan off resto and we all know they get expensive. ( spoke to the owner today and he is telling me someone is going to pick the car up next week) it needs a lot of work but if you can do all the work yourself, you may come out ahead.
any one know of a cheap zwitter rag or 53oval rag for sale that needs a complete resto for a reasonable price( only because i will do a complete ground up resto on it.
worst case im looking for a orig oval rag any year

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:00 pm

Braukuche wrote: Wiggy wrote: I will say one thing, I took my car to a few all makes shows and I got some sick offers. I was almost tempted.

Offers don't mean squat unless there is cash on the barrel. Especially at shows, people talk all kinds of crap knowing that the owner is not likely to part with their treasure. The only real way to look at value is to find a comperable car that sold recently on the open market...not some inside job. I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to shell out $35k for a restored low light coupe unless their is something really remarkable about it. The market for Ghias is just not that hot and doesn't seem like it ever will get hot, its too much of a niche car, always was, likely always will be.
--Dan
I agree.
Who in their right mind would pay $30,000 plus for a stupid old Volkswagen, when for $75,000 you can buy a rehashed '57 Chebby??

Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:56 am

Kaiser_sose wrote: I have mine for sale Pending. 58 cabrio , only clip ever was under the spare tire and new floors.
Nice paint , new floors, rebuilt tranny ,6V, Okrasa TSV1300s,with correct blue oil canister, oetinger Nos gauge, Ghia trip, Ghia Tach, Kienzle ash tray clock(not working), OG empi Rader wheels(4) w/continental new tires.
Hirshmann red tip , Blaupunkt radio, old og Typ 14 coco mats, and original mats(not repro) ,euroheadlights, albert mirrors, sperwolf shift lock. lowered the righ way,

I local friend offer me $30K max, sale is pending but I havent seeany money I was looking for at least 35K, , I was thinking on advertasing here in the samba, but beacuse of my location is hard that someone will be interested. anyawy if dont see $ by next week it will in the classifieds
I have a house on texas perhaps I can drive there, so its more atractive to US buyers . car was bought in Texas 9 years ago.

Omar

1952 356 1500
1953 356 Cabrio 1500
1956 speedster
1955 microbus
1958 KG Cabrio Okrasa

Omar,

Why don't you sell all those rare assesoires separate from your car. Then you will probably get more money for it.
I would like to buy the Ghia Trip and Tach for my own 58 cabrio.

Patrick

Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:56 am

iowegian wrote: Braukuche wrote: Wiggy wrote: I will say one thing, I took my car to a few all makes shows and I got some sick offers. I was almost tempted.

Offers don't mean squat unless there is cash on the barrel. Especially at shows, people talk all kinds of crap knowing that the owner is not likely to part with their treasure. The only real way to look at value is to find a comperable car that sold recently on the open market...not some inside job. I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to shell out $35k for a restored low light coupe unless their is something really remarkable about it. The market for Ghias is just not that hot and doesn't seem like it ever will get hot, its too much of a niche car, always was, likely always will be.
--Dan
I agree.
Who in their right mind would pay $30,000 plus for a stupid old Volkswagen, when for $75,000 you can buy a rehashed '57 Chebby??

A lot of people are not in their right mind. How else can you explain the attraction people have to SUVs when gas is over $3 a gallon? Consumers do not make rational decisions, marketing people figured that out a century ago. Problem with Ghias is that they are essentially two seaters, which drastically cuts down on appeal, they have very distinct styling, which limits audience, they are VWs and not performace cars and they have a feminine image. Not too many car guys are man enough like us to drive a car that other guys with wee winkles look on as "chick cars."
--Dan