TheSamba.com :: View topic - How much wider are Thing rear brake drums than Beetle?

Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:44 pm

than that of an IRS beetle?

I want to do a swap to Thing drums (wide 5 bolt pattern). I understand that i have to use the Thing shoes and hardware (and wheel cylinders?), but i can use IRS beetle backing plates.

It pushes the wheel out a little bit and i was wondering if anyone could tell me how much more? perhaps in mm? I can convert from imperial - that's not the issue, but ideally i'd like more than 1/2" per side. my fender clearances are pretty tight, so if it's 15mm or 10mm - that would make a difference.

Thanks. :)

Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:58 pm

i just measured stock beetle brake pads (brand new ones in my garage with a digital micrometer). 40.01mm.

IIRC Thing is 40mm. I read that here (thesamba)

so - is the drum thicker on Things, or are they the same thickness (ie: no added track)?

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:42 pm

The drum is thicker but the *inside diameter* is the same -- that's why they use the same shoes.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:05 pm

im not sure what the original posters aplication was or the intent, but...i put type three drums on my bug with wider (taller?) pads and no added width; also available in wide five!!! youll need the backing plates though, but a late plate will acomodate an early drum with the type three. something to consider.

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:10 pm

i initially looked at wide 5 type3 rear brakes. they are apparently wider. 55mm?? and backing plates are $125usd!! USED

Towel Rail: Do you know how much thicker the drum is? and where is it thicker... on the wheel mounting face?

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:22 pm

The rim on which the shoes bear. Not sure how much thicker.

The front brakes do so much of the stopping, that I don't put a whole lot of stock in beefing up the rear brakes. Get front disks (or all around disks) if you fancy, but I do just fine with stock drums and paying attention to traffic. :lol:

- Scott

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:17 am

i am not converting to Thing brakes because of the slight increase in width. it's because the drums bolt on to my IRS suspension and easily swap to a wide 5 bolt pattern from a 4 lug style.

If anyone has a rear drum kicking around - could you please measure the overall width? Back to bolt mounting face?

Thanks.

Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:42 am

Pictures...
Thing on left...

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Thing drum 3 1/8", 1968 up Beetle 2 1/4", so 7/8" wider. Wide enough to make you tires rub on the fender lip.
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The rear of a Thing uses Thing only drums, However... the shoes, backing plates, wheel cylinders and hardware are the same as a Beetle.
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If you want five lug rear use 58 to 67 drums (and shoes and cylinders) and make or have made an iron (or steel) spacer that fits between the "nose" of the drum and the nut. I've done it several times, works great and is a lot cheaper than thing drums, plus no increase in track width. Actually, there is a decrease in width!!!

Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:51 pm

Excellent!! thanks for the advice / tip.:D

I will cut off the tip (correct depth) of my current 4 lug drum and use it as a spacer.

What wheel bearings do i use with this setup?

Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:52 pm

Great idea for the spacer, I never thought of that!
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As to bearings... this modification to the rear does NOT in any way effect the bearings. The rear bearing set up is very different from the fronts. When you get the rear drum off you'll see what I mean.
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Later,
Eric

Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:48 pm

thanks Eric. I was going to post to answer my own question. the bearing is the IRS axle bearing and nothing needs to be changed.

This looks like a super easy swap. i ordered all the parts already.

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:38 pm

got the parts.

the difference between stock 4 lug (74) drums total depth (to where the axle nuts bolts to) and a stock 5 lug (67) is 12mm (actually 11.88mm)

So, i measured the total depth and cut off that much off the 4 lug drum to use as a spacer. bonus: it's splined like the drum as well.

Also - to follow-up on your comment uberautowerks, the actual bolt / wheel mounting surface is 4mm less than that of a 4 lug drum.

This means that there is not only no added track width, but an actual reduction.

I have several pictures i will post later that back up these numbers.

Super easy wide 5 brake swap from a 4 lug. 67 beetle front and rear drums, shoes, hardware, wheel cylinders.

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:23 pm

uberautowerks wrote: ... plus no increase in track width. Actually, there is a decrease in width!!!
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Hmm, I think I mentioned that 8) - Just had to give you some shit. I'm glad you made it work!
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Later,
Eric

Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:30 am

i know - but i measured it and took a picture. :P

thanks again for the tip.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:44 am

Brian, can we sticky this so Bug owners will stop buying up all of our rare drums? Thanks. :lol:

Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:35 pm

I Know this is an old post

but i just wanted to ask if the drum next to the thing drum is from a std beetle

I just want to know because i have a set of 4 std beetle drums and wheels. since my things drums are worn beyond limit and the rear ones are not the original thing drums ( the ones that are on it are wide 5 but are thiner and have a spacer so the 36mm nut will line up whit the hole for the slip pin)

uberautowerks wrote: Pictures...
Thing on left...

-

-

-
Thing drum 3 1/8", 1968 up Beetle 2 1/4", so 7/8" wider. Wide enough to make you tires rub on the fender lip.
-
The rear of a Thing uses Thing only drums, However... the shoes, backing plates, wheel cylinders and hardware are the same as a Beetle.
-
If you want five lug rear use 58 to 67 drums (and shoes and cylinders) and make or have made an iron (or steel) spacer that fits between the "nose" of the drum and the nut. I've done it several times, works great and is a lot cheaper than thing drums, plus no increase in track width. Actually, there is a decrease in width!!!

Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:49 pm

Alex...
Yes it is a beetle drum on the right.
Yes your Beetle drums should bolt right on.
I say should because... Depending on the year the fronts ('68 '67) came from you might need to change the inner bearing and inner grease seal to '69 up parts.

Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:02 am

the front did bolt right on I did put new bearings and seal on the front
just gona have to wait for tomorrow so i can take my thing to a friends shop so i can do the rear brakes and change the drums

Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:04 pm

just finish the rear brake and drums swap and they do not needed the spacers
and know my tires dont rub on the fenders

Sat May 05, 2012 4:51 pm

westcoast-paul wrote: got the parts.

the difference between stock 4 lug (74) drums total depth (to where the axle nuts bolts to) and a stock 5 lug (67) is 12mm (actually 11.88mm)

So, i measured the total depth and cut off that much off the 4 lug drum to use as a spacer. bonus: it's splined like the drum as well.

Also - to follow-up on your comment uberautowerks, the actual bolt / wheel mounting surface is 4mm less than that of a 4 lug drum.

This means that there is not only no added track width, but an actual reduction.

I have several pictures i will post later that back up these numbers.

Super easy wide 5 brake swap from a 4 lug. 67 beetle front and rear drums, shoes, hardware, wheel cylinders.
did you have to use the 67 backing plates on the rear too?