TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:53 pm

I am in the process of doing a full restoration on a 1957 356. Is it possible to put a full bug suspension in the 356?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:40 am

Why & what part of the suspension?

The 356 suspension is far superior to a bug. I would stick with the porsche suspension. Drive a '57 bug, then drive a '57 356. You'll know what I mean.

Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:20 am

As far as the suspension goes, it's totally different and the 356 is welded in as a part of the uni-body.

As for the brakes and such, it's all pretty much a bolt-in. You might even find some VW part numbers when you take the 356 suspension out.

None of the cast parts are any better in a 356 than a VW, the difference is in the wheel cylinders, shoes and drums. I did the same thing as you're planning on my own car after I saw what the replacement parts were gonna be to stay all Porsche.

As long as you keep them in good condition, correctly bleed and adjusted. you won't notice much difference at all in performance.

Honestly, NEW VW beats WORN 356 every time.

Luck !

TC

Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:09 am

Let me know if you want to sell your 356 brakes & drums. I could use an extra set for one of my buses.

Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:45 pm

Thank you I will post anything that I don't need. Where can I find the bolt on VW brakes at?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:49 pm

JohnSewards wrote: I am in the process of doing a full restoration on a 1957 356. Is it possible to put a full bug suspension in the 356?

Why? If it has a Beetle suspension, then it's not "restored".

Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:08 am

I will be using the car as a daily driver to work and back. Only around 10 miles a day and the car will be parked in a garage at work. I am trying to see what is the most practical to use for a daily driver. My wife has a 1969 280SL and I was driving it to work the other day and had to slam on the brakes. Her car has disk brakes and I felt that it made the difference. I know that there are all kinds of upgrades for the VW and thought that maybe some of these I could use to take advantage of modern improvements in technology.

Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:49 am

I don't know about the Beetle suspension but I know you can fit modern disc brakes to 356s.

This 356 had front disc brakes:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=397036

Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:16 pm

If the brakes are your major concern, consider what Everett posted and keep your car all Porsche. The 356C and SC had disc brakes and the 912 used the same but with larger front rotors. The master cylinder from the 68 and later 912 will basically bolt in and has the benefit of being a tandem design.
Also, your wife's 280SL is quite a bit heavier than your Porsche and obviously benefits from the disc brake set-up more than if it had drums. I'm all for upgrades in safety, but at the same time have driven 356's with properly set up drums and have been satisfied with their performance. And, they are still being used in vintage racing where braking is at a premium.
You might try finding a 356 with properly set up drum brakes to test drive and see if they will meet your requirements before you finalize your decision...just a thought!

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:29 am

I converted my 64 SC to VW drums all the way around, I just can't afford to continue to buy genuine Porsche parts anymore, but really like the car and want to keep driving it. I ended up liking the wide five wheel pattern as well, it kinda back-dates the look of the car in a way.

The fronts were an easy bolt on from the spindles outward, the rears were the same from the axles outward. The holes in the torsion arms even lined up since they were slotted.

The resulting braking is just fine, really. It stops perfectly. MUCH, MUCH cheaper than retaining/rebuilding/re-buying Porsche 356 parts, probably fine for my needs . . . it's just a daily driver or a bit less than . . . and I saved the Porsche parts to maybe sell or for the next owner if I ever sell the car.

If money is a big factor, VW parts are a good alternative, really.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:27 pm

Hi,
Take a 356 T6 64 that has just the front trailing arms.

Can I buy bug link pin spindles and go from there?
Will they bolt up to the 356 trailing arms in front?

Rich

Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:00 pm

TC/TeamEvil wrote: I converted my 64 SC to VW drums all the way around, I just can't afford to continue to buy genuine Porsche parts anymore, but really like the car and want to keep driving it. I ended up liking the wide five wheel pattern as well, it kinda back-dates the look of the car in a way.

The fronts were an easy bolt on from the spindles outward, the rears were the same from the axles outward. The holes in the torsion arms even lined up since they were slotted.

The resulting braking is just fine, really. It stops perfectly. MUCH, MUCH cheaper than retaining/rebuilding/re-buying Porsche 356 parts, probably fine for my needs . . . it's just a daily driver or a bit less than . . . and I saved the Porsche parts to maybe sell or for the next owner if I ever sell the car.

If money is a big factor, VW parts are a good alternative, really.

How about posting some pic's of your 356?

Thanks

Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:12 am

"How about posting some pic's of your 356? "

Sure!

We've started busting the car down to basics for a paint and detail over the following months. I can shoot pics of all the parts and pieces and the re-fit as we go. Plans are to replace the trans, steering box, column, shaft, directional assembly, switches, umbrella e-brake, and shifter and as much else as we can with VW items.

Pretty much, refinish the car to decent condition using as many VW parts as possible. The prices for the genuine 356 parts are WAY too much for me to afford replacements, (I mean a 356 dash knob cost as much as VW brake shoes for all four corners) so this is gonna be a real experiment.

I'll shoot as many pics as I can. Just might take a bit to get everything ready for reassembly.

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:42 am

r_towle wrote: Hi,
Take a 356 T6 64 that has just the front trailing arms.

Can I buy bug link pin spindles and go from there?
Will they bolt up to the 356 trailing arms in front?

Rich

The beetle and 356 C link forgings are the same VW part number. The difference is that the Porsche part is machined differently than the 356 part. The inner portion of the link pin holes are machined flat as opposed to the original casting which has a lip around it. In other words, the lip is machined off to the flat portion which mates to the trailing arms. The VW link pin kits can be used, but you won't use the cupped washer which is included in the kit.

I just helped a buddy rebuild his suspension and we went through this when we discovered that the last time the front end was greased was probably at the factory. Link pins worn through the bushings and almost through the C link!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:50 am

TC/TeamEvil wrote: "How about posting some pic's of your 356? "

Sure!

We've started busting the car down to basics for a paint and detail over the following months. I can shoot pics of all the parts and pieces and the re-fit as we go. Plans are to replace the trans, steering box, column, shaft, directional assembly, switches, umbrella e-brake, and shifter and as much else as we can with VW items.

Pretty much, refinish the car to decent condition using as many VW parts as possible. The prices for the genuine 356 parts are WAY too much for me to afford replacements, (I mean a 356 dash knob cost as much as VW brake shoes for all four corners) so this is gonna be a real experiment.

I'll shoot as many pics as I can. Just might take a bit to get everything ready for reassembly.

Is your car missing all of the above parts or are you really replacing all of the existing items? If you have all of the stuff, why not just rebuild it? If your wheel cylinders aren't rusty, you can buy rebuild kits for a few bucks each. I believe rebuilding a ZF steering box isn't going to cost you much more that a rebuilding a VW. I know for a fact putting a VW trans in a 356 is not cheap or easy.

There are a bunch of VW parts which do crossover to 356, but by using them judiciously, you can still maintain the integrity of your Porsche...and thats coming from a VW guy!

Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:48 pm

You're probably right, but I have all of the necessary VW stuff right here, and no money at all necessary to buy the 356 parts to rebuild the car.

Honestly, I shouldn't even own a Porsche, let alone a '65 356 SC.

All of the original 356 parts are off of the car and right here (except for the engine which is long gone) I might be better off throwing everything up on eBay as a project car. Depends on how involved the whole thing gets, I guess.

Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:27 am

TC/TeamEvil wrote: You're probably right, but I have all of the necessary VW stuff right here, and no money at all necessary to buy the 356 parts to rebuild the car.

Honestly, I shouldn't even own a Porsche, let alone a '65 356 SC.

All of the original 356 parts are off of the car and right here (except for the engine which is long gone) I might be better off throwing everything up on eBay as a project car. Depends on how involved the whole thing gets, I guess.

With the way the market is going with tubs, keep it and piece it together. Bolt in the Porsche trans and put some Bug brakes on it if that suits you. I traded my C for the downpayment on my first house. Those are the best 356's. I'm in the same boat as you though with an rusty, smashed 58 waiting to be put back on the road. Lets see some pics of you hoopty...

Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:11 pm

COBussmuggler wrote: r_towle wrote: Hi,
Take a 356 T6 64 that has just the front trailing arms.

Can I buy bug link pin spindles and go from there?
Will they bolt up to the 356 trailing arms in front?

Rich

The beetle and 356 C link forgings are the same VW part number. The difference is that the Porsche part is machined differently than the 356 part. The inner portion of the link pin holes are machined flat as opposed to the original casting which has a lip around it. In other words, the lip is machined off to the flat portion which mates to the trailing arms. The VW link pin kits can be used, but you won't use the cupped washer which is included in the kit.

I just helped a buddy rebuild his suspension and we went through this when we discovered that the last time the front end was greased was probably at the factory. Link pins worn through the bushings and almost through the C link!

So, just so I am clear.
I can buy beetle link pin spindles, all built for disk brakes.
Then I can bolt those right to the 356 trailing arms?
I cant picture in me head (I have never seen both parts together) what difference you are talking about.
Is there a reason that this will not work?

My ideal situation will be to buy a kit for link pin/disk brakes and bolt that on to the 356 trailing arms, with no machining.
If that is possible, that is what I want to do.

Rich

Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:33 am

Rich,

The king and link are comprised of two main parts. The spindle which is tied to the C link via the king pin. Though I'm not positive, I dont think the c- link will mate to the trailing arms without machining off the lip where it mates to the trailing arm. Granted, I was working on a drum brake car and yours is different. Maybe order the king and link kit from a place that will allow you to return it if it doesn't fit your application? I bet you could call CB or one of the big parts suppliers and ask them. I'm sure with all the tubs running around SOCAL, this conversion has been tried and they may know.

Let us know what happens.

Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:09 am

COBussmuggler wrote: I believe rebuilding a ZF steering box isn't going to cost you much more that a rebuilding a VW.

and what is the difference between a 356 steering box and a vw one ?

i am rebuilding a 56 bug , and maybe i can fit a 356 box ?

thanks
ian