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Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:43 am

Aloha gang. Can anyone give me some details on lowering a 71 411 4 door? Both front and rear.

I am looking at one to buy put haven't looked at it yet. Is the rear IRS like a stock T-1,2 or 3? If so, I can handle that. I know the front end is unique to these T-4's. What has worked for you all? It is a stock 1.7l with the automatic trans. Mahalo! Frank

Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:36 pm

the car is a unibody design with all four corners sitting on springs.

Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:13 pm

Does anyone make a lowering coil and shock kit?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:41 pm

There is no real "standard way." A general rule for lowering is to make sure you have adequate/appropriate dampers for your spring rate and length. That being said, people in Europe have had success with E30 BMW springs- say the front springs from an 84-91 318i. From what I've been told, the front strut inserts were barely adequate for stock springs, so I really think you should upgrade those at the same time. There should be any number of inserts that have a similar diameter that will fit with a little bit of fiddling, say from an 80's watercooled VW. You'll need a spacer under it and possibly modify the ring at the top to hold it centered properly. I've got some VW Quantum/Audi 4000 inserts I'm fitting (with credit to Ray Greenwood for this suggestion- he suggests KYB GR-2 specifically, but I think any high quality brand should work). There are several other ways that people have suggested. I don't know if many people have lowered the rear, since it is already low. As vwfye mentioned, its coils in the rear also, instead of torsion springs. You'll need short springs and better shocks. I saw somebody on another forum planning on using Volvo V70 rear springs (not the XC I'm assuming). They look shorter and thicker. I've read of people using both use KYB GR-2 Ford 70-80s van front shocks or Type III Koni Front shocks on the Type 4 rear, with minor fiddling/mods with the lower mount. I haven't tried anything with the rear of a car yet.

Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:35 pm

i lowered my car with cut springs and stock struts. many advised against it, and your results may vary, but i've not had the issues i was told i would have, the mpg went up due to the reductions of air flowing under the car and the handling improved. however, i didn't slam the car, just lowered the nose to match the height of the rear.

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:18 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I am looking at buying one and it could use a front drop as you have said. That would improve the look dramatically and if there is an added bonus if better mileage and handling, all the better.

Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:18 am

vwfye wrote: i lowered my car with cut springs and stock struts. many advised against it, and your results may vary, but i've not had the issues i was told i would have, the mpg went up due to the reductions of air flowing under the car and the handling improved. however, i didn't slam the car, just lowered the nose to match the height of the rear.

Since the front is so light in rear engined cars, I'm sure it is more forgiving to the problem of having dampers mismatched to the spring rate. You can probably get away with it for much longer than on a front engined car. In conjuction with the light front end, the front springs are soooo long, that even cut down, the multitude of problems with drastically shortened suspension travel that happen with cars with very short springs to begin with I bet are largely avoided.

Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:34 pm

ubercrap wrote: There is no real "standard way." A general rule for lowering is to make sure you have adequate/appropriate dampers for your spring rate and length. That being said, people in Europe have had success with E30 BMW springs- say the front springs from an 84-91 318i. From what I've been told, the front strut inserts were barely adequate for stock springs, so I really think you should upgrade those at the same time. There should be any number of inserts that have a similar diameter that will fit with a little bit of fiddling, say from an 80's watercooled VW. You'll need a spacer under it and possibly modify the ring at the top to hold it centered properly. I've got some VW Quantum/Audi 4000 inserts I'm fitting (with credit to Ray Greenwood for this suggestion- he suggests KYB GR-2 specifically, but I think any high quality brand should work). There are several other ways that people have suggested. I don't know if many people have lowered the rear, since it is already low. As vwfye mentioned, its coils in the rear also, instead of torsion springs. You'll need short springs and better shocks. I saw somebody on another forum planning on using Volvo V70 rear springs (not the XC I'm assuming). They look shorter and thicker. I've read of people using both use KYB GR-2 Ford 70-80s van front shocks or Type III Koni Front shocks on the Type 4 rear, with minor fiddling/mods with the lower mount. I haven't tried anything with the rear of a car yet.

Is that stock E30 BMW springs? Oh, and the struts on a Vanagon is way different, it is an actual strut not an insert. I got a lowering kit from CiP1 and, yeah just different...

Volkswagen Type IV

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:08 pm

I`m about to lower my 411 using an adjustable conversion with 2.5" 10" springs available from burton power.
Its designed for a ford strut but the body diameter matches.
At the rear I`ll probably get custom springs made about 1" shorter & 25% stiffer unless anyone can confirm the volvo springs work??
I`ll post pics of the modified strut asap!
8)

Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:43 pm

Please do post pics and the items you got from Burton.

Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:53 am

we designed our own setup!
here you see it driving at the highway with a trunk FULLY loaded!!!
Still steering and feeling the road very nice!
This is a setup with a harder spring and damper, so it won't bottom out,
Damper and spring are matched to each other.

We can make these if interested...

Greetz
Sancho

Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:15 am

dogmai333 wrote: Please do post pics and the items you got from Burton.

I second that motion! I'm glad to see so much input in this forum for different solutions. Keep them coming Oh, by the way, where did I mention Vanagon? :lol: Yes, I believe they are using stock E30 springs. I have a set of E30 318i springs sitting right next to some 412 springs in my garage. Same diameter, shorter, a little beefier looking. Some Audi 4k/Quantum struts will be paired with these. They just need a spacer underneath and some adjustment to the top centering ring part. There is no reason not to upgrade to these dampers. I have several sets I bought on ebay for around $20 a set. I've seen more for similar prices. Funny thing is now I bought a Quantum that probably needs some struts... :lol:

Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:53 am

I'm sorry I might of been thinking of a different thread about the Vanagon... How much shorter are the E 30 springs? The more I think about it the lower I want the noseto go.

Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:17 am

well, i am just passing 12,000 miles on my car since i dropped the nose 5 inches. car handles great, still rides very nicely and tracks true! i have stock struts and cut stock front springs. cost me 1 cutting wheel and 1 hour of time.

Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:12 pm

ubercrap wrote: dogmai333 wrote: Please do post pics and the items you got from Burton.

I second that motion! I'm glad to see so much input in this forum for different solutions. Keep them coming Oh, by the way, where did I mention Vanagon? :lol: Yes, I believe they are using stock E30 springs. I have a set of E30 318i springs sitting right next to some 412 springs in my garage. Same diameter, shorter, a little beefier looking. Some Audi 4k/Quantum struts will be paired with these. They just need a spacer underneath and some adjustment to the top centering ring part. There is no reason not to upgrade to these dampers. I have several sets I bought on ebay for around $20 a set. I've seen more for similar prices. Funny thing is now I bought a Quantum that probably needs some struts... :lol:

I now have one complete strut!
I have a full travel strut 4" shorter than stock with a 10" long 3" spring with another 5" of adjustment left.How much of the remaining adjustment I can use without bottoming out I`m not sure, but I`ve no intention of lowering it 9"!
Also fitted bump steer bushes to flip the track rods.
Hope to have them fitted on sunday, pics to follow.
:D

Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:53 pm

Sancho - love that car!
What motor have you fitted?
Are you a member of der autobahn scrapers btw?

Heres mine with the new struts fitted - very happy with how it drives!
I`ve included pics of what you get in the kit & the finished strut.I used a ford sierra strut modified & then fitted with the coilover conversion.

Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:01 pm

Hy,
we have an Subara 1.8 turbo from the subaru XT
No member of DAS...

We have modified Ford Fiesta standard shocks.
If you look very close you might notice that our lower and upper part are standard 412
the middle part is standard Ford (spring and shock)
Height must be chosen before final setup.
We took a mild drop for future classis "rally" action.
Drop the nose, but still ground clearance.

When I look at your pictures, I would assume that your shock is the original 411 shock with your Ford spring wrapt around them.
Is that correct?

I love the stance on your car! Wheels also look good.

More info on our blog.

Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:33 pm

vwfye wrote: well, i am just passing 12,000 miles on my car since i dropped the nose 5 inches. car handles great, still rides very nicely and tracks true! i have stock struts and cut stock front springs. cost me 1 cutting wheel and 1 hour of time.

How many rings did you cut?

Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:37 pm

i don't remember, there have been three cuts in the front total as i didnt' want to just slam it without seeing how the car reacted.

Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:38 pm

the front is another 2" lower than that picture!