TheSamba.com :: View topic - Alternator belt, smoking, oil, and other problems.

Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:39 pm

I got a chance to go out and visit my Thing, which sits at my family's ranch! I was so happy and everything was running smoothly... until at one stop I stalled (for some reason after going 45+ mph and then I slow down and stop, if I push on the clutch or flip it in neutral it stalls as I slow down- so usually I just downshift and use the engine brake.)
Anyway, it took forever for me to restart, I angered some woman in a Lexus pretty badly, she honked and flipped me off... ooops. :roll:
Going home, the "G" light came on... I assumed it meant "gas." My gas gauge only works when it wants to... but I filled it up with gas but the light would turn off...
as I was driving home a steady stream of smoke was coming out the rear, I pulled off, and let it all out and waited by the side of the road for my car to cool off.
Made me really worried, but I made it home, when I parked it in the "machine shed" I heard a rather loud booming noise. I didn't think much of it since some of the gas in it was old... our tractors do that when we haven't used them for a few months and the old gas is still in them.

The next day I go out to check on my car, I notice the alternator belt is... well, broken. I also checked my oil level... it's REALLY low. But I thought: "what the hell." Since about 3 miles down the county road a guy with a classic car restoration shop helps me. (For some reason he likes me despite the fact I'm 17 and I don't pay him to help me.) I loaded up all the goodies I bought in and drive over. Just as I pulled in, the car started smoking. This guy specializes in 40's-60's GM cars so he could help me but not a whole lot. Pics to come, my dispo camera needs to be developed.
Eventually I had to go, so I drove the Thing back home, covered it up and again, couldn't take it the 70 miles back home.

These are my questions:
1) Where do I get a new alternator belt? How do I put it on since there is no way to swing the two wheels closer and father apart, I can't tension it.

2) Don't laugh too much at this one: How do I change my oil? There is a nut right under the engine but I'd rather do it right the first time. I see where the dipstick and the oil plung thing are, so no worries there. Also, where is the oil filter? Where can I get a new one and how do I put it on?

3) Is the reason why my engine is smoking is because I have very little oil? When I accelerated up a hill, it sounded as though two metal parts were rubbing against each other... sort of similar to cylinders rattling when you're in to high of a gear, but I'm positive it wasn't that. Is that also because I have very little oil?

4) does the "G" light in the intrument panel mean gas? Or something else?

5) Anyone know where I can get a service manual? Also a better wiring guide (other than the one on The Samba) I can't for the life of me figure out how to get my brake lights working.

I got some pictues of my Thing with a bumper, new lights, and some other features on it. Pictures to come once I get my camera developed.

**Edit** Oh and one more thing, the guy whose helping me, I'd like to give him something since he's helping me. Any ideas? Should I buy some chocolate or something? That won't make me look gay though will it? :lol:

Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:24 pm

Where to begin....?

G means generator, which wasnt producing electricity because the generator belt was broken.
If the generator isnt spinning, the cooling fan is not spinning.
If the cooling fan is not spinning, the engine is overheating.
If the engine is overheating, oil burns.
If oil burns, metal rubs against metal.
If metal rubs against metal, the engine will sieze, throw a rod, burn a valve, or all sort of assorted nasty things.

I hope I am wrong..

Get the Idiot Book (major bookstores, Amazon, ebay) or the BugMe videos ( www.bugmevideo.com ) - it sounds like you will need them. They will show all there is to know about VW maintenance.

Much luck,

Mark

Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:32 pm

Haha! That makes things a whole lot more clearer!

Is this the correct generator belt that I am looking for?

http://germanmotorworks.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=304

For $6 I think I can afford that. Would a place like autozone have a generator belt?

What viscosity (spelling) am I looking for when I but some oil?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:58 pm

That's it! Autozone may have the belt as should a NAPA shop. I think I am using Shell 10W40. Get a strainer gasket set while you are there.

Belt is replaced by removing the big nut and front pulley half on the generator (insert a screwdriver in notch on edge of rear pulley half to keep it from spinning) Belt tightness/looseness is adjusted by adding or subtracting shims between the pulley halves. Spare/extra shims are stored behind the big cone-shaped washer behind the generator nut. You'll see them when they fall out probably.

Oil change involves removing the six little nuts from the round plate under the center of the engine, draining the oil, removing/cleaning the screen, replacing it along with NEW gaskets/washers, and filling with a oil. Some oil screen plates have a bigger drain plug in the center of them. Stock Things did not.

Mark

Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:06 pm

BTW, offering other men chocolate for services is about as gay as you can get. Stock some beer for crying out loud! :lol:

Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:46 pm

Towel Rail wrote: BTW, offering other men chocolate for services is about as gay as you can get. Stock some beer for crying out loud! :lol:

My Dad got mad at me for having beer... but that's another story... :oops:

Quote: Oil change involves removing the six little nuts from the round plate under the center of the engine, draining the oil, removing/cleaning the screen, replacing it along with NEW gaskets/washers, and filling with a oil. Some oil screen plates have a bigger drain plug in the center of them. Stock Things did not.

What kind of oil filter and what size gaskets/washers am I looking for at autozone? What length belt am I looking for? Same thing with the screen. :oops: Sorry for all the moronic questions, but I'm used to my '86 Volvo, I'm pretty good at tearing it apart and keeping it alive by myself.

I ordered: How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive 19 Ed: A Manual of Step-by-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot, so I should be in good hands! :wink:

Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:28 pm

npconnor wrote: Towel Rail wrote: BTW, offering other men chocolate for services is about as gay as you can get. Stock some beer for crying out loud! :lol:

My Dad got mad at me for having beer... but that's another story... :oops:

Quote: Oil change involves removing the six little nuts from the round plate under the center of the engine, draining the oil, removing/cleaning the screen, replacing it along with NEW gaskets/washers, and filling with a oil. Some oil screen plates have a bigger drain plug in the center of them. Stock Things did not.

What kind of oil filter and what size gaskets/washers am I looking for at autozone? What length belt am I looking for? Same thing with the screen. :oops: Sorry for all the moronic questions, but I'm used to my '86 Volvo, I'm pretty good at tearing it apart and keeping it alive by myself.

I ordered: How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive 19 Ed: A Manual of Step-by-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot, so I should be in good hands! :wink:

Scott: He's only 17 years old! He can't drive his Thing while in jail!!!

np: Bring me some chocolate and I'll help you change your oil. The screen is reusable (clean with diesel, kerosene, or mineral spirits) and located under the round plate (actually above it, since the plate is on the bottom of the engine). The gasket kit consists of two appx 6" round paper gaskets, 6 small copper washers, and a big copper washer. If you wait until you get the book, all will be made known....

Mark

Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:30 pm

npconnor wrote: What kind of oil filter and what size gaskets/washers am I looking for at autozone?
First, let me say - and I emphasize:
DON'T DRIVE YOUR THING AGAIN UNTIL YOU GET A NEW BELT AND PUT SOME OIL IN IT!
You risk frying your motor, if you haven't done so already. And it may also be worth mentioning that, as a general rule, when the idiot light comes on, that means stop driving.

You can get the gasket and crush washers in a kit. See #38 in the picture below. Tell the parts guy you need oil sump gaskets and crush washers for a VW type 1 motor. If you tell him it's for your Thing, he may just stare at you blankly. Just tell him it's for a Beetle and save yourself the aggrivation. As for the filter, your Thing doesn't have the type of oil filter you're used to. It has a metal mesh screen under the sump plate that you'll remove to change the oil.

There's a great web site called Rob and Dave's Aircooled Volkswagen Pages. It has some great how-to's for just about any maintenance or tune-up chore you can imagine. Their article on oil changes is here. The page on checking/replacing the generator belt is here.

Quote: I ordered: How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive 19 Ed: A Manual of Step-by-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot, so I should be in good hands! :wink:
Good move.

And good luck.

Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:51 pm

Good site, Cap'n! And good advice as well.

This page from that site has a great exploded (har har) diagram of the screen, plate, gaskets, etc.

Mark

Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:23 pm

Gotcha... sorry, still a little new to the VW scene, my bad for being, well- an idiot. :oops: Have an even better idea on what I'm supposed to do.

Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:05 pm

As others have said, simply don't drive it until you change the oil and get a new belt. I can't find the exact page right now, but the Muir idiot's guide (which I found to be VERY helpful) says something along the lines of:

If the generator light comes on while driving, PULL OVER NOW AND SHUT OFF THE ENGINE IMMEDIATELY!

The ONLY cooling fan for the engine is attached to the other end of the generator. When the generator spins, the cooling fan spins and the engine cools. Guess what happens when the generator stops. It's pretty close to the same thing that happens to a water cooled engine when you take all the water out.

The thing about VW engines is that they're pretty hardy. You can abuse the snot out of them, and they generally keep chugging along. I blew my first engine by driving it on a very hot day up a mountain - 70MPH climb up the Sierra Nevadas when it was 100+ degrees out... didn't slow down until the fuel pump died. However, the entire engine didn't blow right away... it took a few weeks for it to finally chew to a stop (chewed through the cam gear!). Thankfully, type 1 engines are about the cheapest engines you can find, and I got mine rebuilt for less than $2k.

So, I suggest treating this engine with kid gloves - set the valves (I promise, after that run, they'll be way out of adjustment) change the oil, put on a new generator belt, and start saving money for a new engine. You've probably only got a few thousand miles left on this one. I'd be really surprised if it lasted another year of driving. Consider it your practice engine - now you know what not to do. Shortly, you'll learn how easy it is to pull an engine.

Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:18 pm

Jeez, that struck hard, where am I going to get another engine? :lol:

How do I "set the valves?" I'm all set on oil and belts, going out tomorrow. How much do new engines cost? Could I get a "beefier" engine (1.7? 1.8L?) and still have it fit without it hanging out the back? There's quite a bit of room back there...

Edit: I used to think I was REALLY lucky since all you guys were talking about your problems with engines and whatnot. It was nice not really having to worry about anything but the black and whites on the road and crazy soccer moms on the highway. :lol:

Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:58 pm

markie61 wrote: Scott: He's only 17 years old! He can't drive his Thing while in jail!!!

LOL, sorry man! I help people with their cars for less than chocolate, but you gotta admit it's an odd question. ;)

As for checking the valves, Glenn has a good writeup: http://www.glenn-ring.com/tech/valve_adjustment.htm

Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:06 pm

Wow, so am I set? I go out again in 2 weekends, if I do all this think I can make the trip of 70-ish miles back to home? Also, am I really going to nees a new engine? I'd estimate I drove it 5 or so miles with the "G" light on, and that's going to kill my poor engine? I start college in fall of '08, how am I going to pay for college AND a new engine? :x

Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:35 am

npconnor wrote: Wow, so am I set? I go out again in 2 weekends, if I do all this think I can make the trip of 70-ish miles back to home? Also, am I really going to nees a new engine? I'd estimate I drove it 5 or so miles with the "G" light on, and that's going to kill my poor engine? I start college in fall of '08, how am I going to pay for college AND a new engine? :x

Five miles in the TX summer heat with no fan? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you've already done damage to the engine. The question is how much.

In addition to everything else you are doing, check the compression (after you properly adjust the valves). If your friend doesn't have a tester, you can get on for about $25 at Sears. Hopefully you are still getting at least 100 psi all around (or close to it). This will let you know if your rings and valves are still serviceable.

Then, when you start your engine, listen for knocking sounds. Since ACVWs are a symphony of mechanical sounds, it can be challenging to pick this out, but his website can help:

http://home.arcor.de/silke.fokken/sounds/

If you do all of the suggested maintenance, and everything else checks out, then you can try and drive it home. Keep the speed down, drive on back roads where the speed limit is lower and at night when it's cooler, and have someone follow you. Keep a close eye on the oil light -- even if the car hasn't used oil before, there's a good chance that it will now.

Speaking of oil, go ahead and use Castrol 20/50 -- and have a couple of extra quarts with you.

After you get it home, check/change the oil *again* even if everything seemed OK on the drive home and also check/adjust the valves again.

Now some good news, many ACVWs have been driven many many miles on worn and/or damaged engines. Low compression and German engineering result in a lot of forgiven mistakes. Also, even if your motor is significantly damaged, it may only need a fairly inexpensive topend rebuild if the bearings are OK. Finally, even if the engine is toast, rebuilt 1600 motors are not horribly expensive. Ask around for someone local to you who's reputable -- they probably have a "good enough" long block sitting around for well under $1000. I know that's a lot of money for a soon to be college student, but it could be worse.

Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:50 am

You can pick up a new longblock for right at $1000. I've seen used complete running motors on Craigslist for $250 and up. (sometimes the used motor comes with a Bug still wrapped around it) Don't fear pulling the motor. You can do it by yourself with a floor jack and some jack stands, but is much easier with a friend or two to help.

Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:40 am

Feeler Gauge
Valve Cover Gaskets (2)
Oil strainer
Oil Sump Gaskets and crush washers
Generator belt
Oil- Castorl20W50

Can you guys think of anything else I need?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:14 am

Tools!

Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:18 am

Buy more than 1 alternator belt. You're dealing with a car that's 33 years old - always be preparred. Don't forget the compression tester. I still need to get one! Oh, and a deep 21mm spark plug socket. I'm sure you'll need to check the plugs as well.

I know you must be itching to get your Thing back on the road, but you may want to take some time and really read through John Muir's book (How To Keep Your VW Alive... ) before you spark that engine back up. It will teach you absolutely EVERYTHING you need to know. I bought my first "Idiot" book when I was 18. Now, over 20 years and two books later, I still read it whenever I get stuck (and even when I'm not stuck just 'cause the illustrations are awesome!).

As far as a new engine...
Fix what you have for now and worry about a new engine when the time comes. Just be prepared that the time may come sooner rather than later. If you do get a new engine DON'T get it from GEX. And a "complete running motor on Craigslist for $250"? All I can say is "you get what you pay for" and "buyer beware".

As far as the replacement engine size goes... based upon my personal experiance (as limited as that may be) I would vote that you go with a stock 1600cc engine - at least for now. A stock size engine will be cheaper to buy, and cheaper to maintain in the long run. A bigger engine can become a "domino effect" of upgrades and modifications that will drain your bank account quicker than a divorce settlement. Keep it stock and you keep it simple.

Now, what kind of chocolate were you going to give your mechanic friend? If it's chocolate covered cherries in a gift-wrapped box with a bow on top, then that would fall under the "gay" category. However, if you buy a huge block of chocolate and then sculpt an over-sized piston out of it using a chainsaw then that would be perfectly acceptable. (Tip: freeze the chocolate before going at it with the chainsaw, and ALWAYS wear eye protection!).

Good luck,
"Lefty"
:lol:

Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:24 am

Fun 181 wrote: However, if you buy a huge block of chocolate and then sculpt an over-sized piston out of it using a chainsaw then that would be perfectly acceptable. (Tip: freeze the chocolate before going at it with the chainsaw, and ALWAYS wear eye protection!).

Good luck,
"Lefty"
:lol:

Pissed-on chocolate? Oh, wait, you said PISTON! Well that's ok. :wink: