TheSamba.com :: View topic - The vintage accessory you would most like to see reproduced

Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:08 pm

Cabriothusiast wrote: I know all the guys who recreate these parts and although I like them personally and think they do very good work...their high quality repro products of unnecessary items like Petri rings or horn button centers does not make the hobby better. As these parts were fairly rare even when the cars were new....why do we need every car looking like it just got back from Pepboys? The Type 2's had very little in the name of accessories and now these vintage buses must stand on their rarity and authenticity. A novel concept! Bugs have travelled down a less gratifying path. Cheesey chrome gadgets, silly add-ons, and basically less than appealing accessories have made them look more and more rediculous. Like others previously, do the hunting, save your money and stick with the originals. There is NO accessory I have ever wanted to find that has not been found in multiples over the last 5 years.

The repro gurus should spend their time making things that actually keep these cars on the road. IMHO

Some reasonable points and questions there to think through, placeholders though for real conversation. There are also justifiable concerns to consider when it comes to reproduction parts and accessories. However (for the reasons I listed above and more) the idea of reproduction accessories being a black and white issue is unrealistic, since today there are too many gray areas to consider.

Dividing lines get redrawn all the time, we see it regularly here, by both the most religious purist and the least informed. For example, why is it suddenly ok for the purist collector at a given point to have us restore a rare pod radio that needs a dozen or more high quality "front and center" reproduction trim parts, to restore it back to nos condition? We could of filled a small landfill by now with the number of extremely rare things that we have brought back from the dead and worthless that were missing so many "signature" parts.

So how exactly does restoring rare items that would otherwise be next to worthless (like pod radios, or horn rings, or Dehne fuel gauges, etc etc) help contribute to "keeping these cars on the road"? How can it be said that reproducing high quality replacement parts to restore rare items "does not make the hobby better"? By what definition is meant by the hobby?

All reproductions are driven by demand period, at least here today they are, we couldn't afford it otherwise. At some point if folks are making things for the sake of making them you'll simply just go out of business sooner than later. So without customers in some quantity, if all the economics work, only then will an item will get reproduced.

To me, the heart of the true collectors that I know are seldom bothered by reproductions in the least bit, the true collector knows this activity only drives up the value of their original items up amongst fellow collectors and in certain circles, its proven itself over and over in the hobby. The only time I end up hearing about a so-called true collector being bent out of shape is when they attend a show with a rare item like a horn ring, and then a car pulls up next to theirs with a dead on reproduction and you can't tell its a repro, and the other guy gets the same amount of attention for a 1/4 the cost and it drives up the blood pressure of the owner of the original accessory. Its almost like at times some collectors want to flaunt what only they can afford, to somehow appear more important than the next guy, that in fact is what the hobby doesn't need.

So I've got a suggestion, if you want to live longer that is, why not just have folks attending shows (that compete anyways) declare in advance to judging exactly what is and isn't repro, at least that way the guy with the original part may get the trophy they quest for. You can't do much about determining who gets the attention, but usually these types are just looking for the trophy anyways. Bob has said it prior too, simply don't add points for accessories unless that item is an authentic original and in the kind of condition which compliments the quality of the car. Its time better spent in this regard.

Also, the argument that cars today being over-popluated with high quality accessories in general makes them look like they "just came back from Pep Boys" existed long before any decent reproductions came along. Trust me too, folks that are shelling out $1K for one of my horn rings or a repro radio, etc. aren't exactly overdoing it in the least bit from the cars I know. I know its a convenient stereotypical argument but it seldom applies.

I keep wondering how folks are going to react when the Hebmuller and early Kab replicas finally arrive shortly built to factory spec? While these cars may not be for the purist, a market will certainly exist for these cars similar to the 356 replicas, and if done well they will sell even if only 50 or 100 only get made. That milestone should be some interesting conversation worth paying attention to.

Gary

Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:25 pm

Gary - we speak in generalities, thats good and bad. I dont worry for a moment whether someone has a repro ring...they know it and if I buy the ring/car, I will too. This isnt a perfect science and I dont have all the answers. IMHO, everyting that can be reproduced ..... doesnt have to be. So be it. If they want to reproduce a split cabrio, its a kit car and has little relevance to me. Rings and Split Cabrios are apples and oranges. Unless you own a real Petri ring, you cant tell the difference but even a novice can look at a reference book and see if a car is real. Thanks for all you do for the hobby, honestly it is appreciated. Todd

Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:54 am

Cabriothusiast wrote: Gary - we speak in generalities, thats good and bad. I dont worry for a moment whether someone has a repro ring...they know it and if I buy the ring/car, I will too. This isnt a perfect science and I dont have all the answers. IMHO, everyting that can be reproduced ..... doesnt have to be. So be it. If they want to reproduce a split cabrio, its a kit car and has little relevance to me. Rings and Split Cabrios are apples and oranges. Unless you own a real Petri ring, you cant tell the difference but even a novice can look at a reference book and see if a car is real. Thanks for all you do for the hobby, honestly it is appreciated. Todd

I don't have all the answers across this broad spectrum either Todd. While I may have various opinions at times they tend to change once I learn of newer ideas or information, I've just learned not to dig my heels in either way. Its rather complex to determine what is healthy for this hobby as its also changing all the time.

I also recognize that many of us have had several negative experiences happen to us in the hobby, just about all of us have been taken advantage of in one way or the other. So its perfectly justified to remain vigilantly cautious with both cars and accessories. In alot of ways accessories in general go in these cycles where I think they are taken way too seriously, and then they are also leveraged or even overly exploited in various ways. If we were to actually list out the stories it'd be book length.

Accessories have surely become a much bigger part of the hobby today though. While a select few rare items will add a certain personal touch to a high end stock restoration, demand has surged due to the popularity today of the resto-custom look and even rat-look cars. So to some degree today often what is expressed in debates over accessories is sometimes more about the differences between folk's tastes in cars, and all the variants that they come in today.

I'd personally prefer in general if given a choice that collectors defer first to trading accessories instead of selling them, I've said that many times before in previous related posts. Since once money gets involved and talked and rumored about, it basically sets off a chain reaction worldwide. So once that initial element of greed enters into the equation things just change. The buzz then fuels the demand, then prices reach a certain point, and then keep going, and then a dozen reproduction parts makers start thinking about how to reproduce that item. What you get then, depending on where it comes from is most often a mixed bag quality-wise, and mixed results aren't necessarily helping the hobby either. From the past 5 years from what I've sampled from and heard about around the world, there are only a select few reproducing things the right way. Most of these things are advertised as perfect reproductions when they simply arent. Most things need be frigged with to fit, or even be safe, or just redone to compliment the car its going on/in.

My intent here was not to defend what I or we do here, we're a small operation, we enjoy it that way, we don't aim to compete with the bigger players, we just don't have the same ideas in common. We just carefully make things in handfuls. We're way more into restoring rare items than recreating them, the challenge is just more rewarding. Plus anyone can send an item overseas and place an order, then have 100 spit out the other end a month later. For me anyways such a purchase takes a certain spirit out of the hobby for me, and I suspect for many others as well. At the end of the day though most will make the rationalizations and concessions needed to make other things happen.

In general my guidance is to always proceed with caution and with due diligence, make thought out decisions on a case by case basis, and then try to know what you are buying or trading for first.

Gary

Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:02 am

Good things to think about.

I own great cars and great accessories and I have no issue with anyone. I try hard to spend what little free time exists on the enjoyment of it all.

Thanks again for the challenging conversation and the other points of view. All valid and in good faith, I have enjoyed and learned from it.

Best Regards to You. T

Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:09 pm

Mark the rear of repo items so that it is obvious to a buyer that it is not original
Tom

Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:04 pm

targa wrote: Mark the rear of repo items so that it is obvious to a buyer that it is not original
Tom

I agree.. NONE.... however, if I had to chose.. I would say... Split Glovebox Doors..... but I think someone is doing those?? Let me re-phrase that... AFFORDABLE Split Glovebox Doors.... :)

Hey... anybody want some Univents? Have a set and I HATE those things... !! Like carrying around vacuum cleaner parts in my trunk of my car for 2 months... someone gave 'em to me...

Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:50 pm

KantDriveFast wrote: Forget accessories...stamp out some friggin' fenders that fit like originals!!!

You would be a VERY popular guy. :wink:

Accessories should be off limits because they are just that...accessories. They are not needed, but wanted. If someday the world runs out of fender skirts and curb feelers, we can all still drive our cars around just fine.

Fenders....YES! accessories....NONE!

Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:28 pm

Isn't this going a bit too far ?
:roll:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=501625

Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:36 pm

50stuf wrote: Since I have a few connections in manufacturing in and out of the USA, and could reproduce an item, I am curious to know from you, the Samba membership what ONE item that you would like to see reproduced that isn't currently being made or offered?

Please stick to accessories if possible.
If you have a picture or actually own the item that would be great.

And to all of you who don't like reproductions and are die-hard sticklers for the original item, I wholeheartedly agree with your argument. But please remember that some items today are so scarce that only the lucky few and the wealthy are able to afford and possess them.

AND in my career, I have always tried to champion the average working Joe, who I consider the backbone of any culture. Without him any hobby like this would be left to the rich upper classes.

Plus if it were not for reproductions, you yourselves wouldn't be here on earth, right?

Thanks DAD, for having a big back seat in your 46 Packard.....haha

CH

Wow, nowhere in this post do I see the OP say, "Alright guys, let's trudge up the age old question of repop vs. OG." It amazes me how some uptight assholes will never just leave well enough alone. I understand that taking the time to hunt rare shit down is a thrill for some, but it does not mean that a quality repop shouldn't be available to the working class.Why don't you people that feel you have to screw up every thread like this by opening your mouths save your attitudes for someone who actually asks for your opinion on what you are all spouting off about.

Oh yeah, my vote is repop it all, nothing is sacred!

Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:45 pm

porkchop wrote: 50stuf wrote: Since I have a few connections in manufacturing in and out of the USA, and could reproduce an item, I am curious to know from you, the Samba membership what ONE item that you would like to see reproduced that isn't currently being made or offered?

Please stick to accessories if possible.
If you have a picture or actually own the item that would be great.

And to all of you who don't like reproductions and are die-hard sticklers for the original item, I wholeheartedly agree with your argument. But please remember that some items today are so scarce that only the lucky few and the wealthy are able to afford and possess them.

AND in my career, I have always tried to champion the average working Joe, who I consider the backbone of any culture. Without him any hobby like this would be left to the rich upper classes.

Plus if it were not for reproductions, you yourselves wouldn't be here on earth, right?

Thanks DAD, for having a big back seat in your 46 Packard.....haha

CH

Wow, nowhere in this post do I see the OP say, "Alright guys, let's trudge up the age old question of repop vs. OG." It amazes me how some uptight assholes will never just leave well enough alone. I understand that taking the time to hunt rare shit down is a thrill for some, but it does not mean that a quality repop shouldn't be available to the working class.Why don't you people that feel you have to screw up every thread like this by opening your mouths save your attitudes for someone who actually asks for your opinion on what you are all spouting off about.

Oh yeah, my vote is repop it all, nothing is sacred!

Are you off your soap box? Your comment was really appreciated as well. :roll:

Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:57 pm

53 0val wrote: porkchop wrote: 50stuf wrote: Since I have a few connections in manufacturing in and out of the USA, and could reproduce an item, I am curious to know from you, the Samba membership what ONE item that you would like to see reproduced that isn't currently being made or offered?

Please stick to accessories if possible.
If you have a picture or actually own the item that would be great.

And to all of you who don't like reproductions and are die-hard sticklers for the original item, I wholeheartedly agree with your argument. But please remember that some items today are so scarce that only the lucky few and the wealthy are able to afford and possess them.

AND in my career, I have always tried to champion the average working Joe, who I consider the backbone of any culture. Without him any hobby like this would be left to the rich upper classes.

Plus if it were not for reproductions, you yourselves wouldn't be here on earth, right?

Thanks DAD, for having a big back seat in your 46 Packard.....haha

CH

Wow, nowhere in this post do I see the OP say, "Alright guys, let's trudge up the age old question of repop vs. OG." It amazes me how some uptight assholes will never just leave well enough alone. I understand that taking the time to hunt rare shit down is a thrill for some, but it does not mean that a quality repop shouldn't be available to the working class.Why don't you people that feel you have to screw up every thread like this by opening your mouths save your attitudes for someone who actually asks for your opinion on what you are all spouting off about.

Oh yeah, my vote is repop it all, nothing is sacred!

Are you off your soap box? Your comment was really appreciated as well. :roll:

Come on Bob, would you expect any less of me? You should have seen the post I was going to submit. At least this one doesn't contain the personal attacks that my previous rants have contained.

Do you get my point? He didn't ask for an opinion on OG vs. repop, he simply asked what would be the most wanted repop. I simply stated that this is what he wanted to know and that his quest to provide an affordable alternative is a wanted one. I also felt it necessary to state what I always do, it's completely unnecessary for one to open their mouth when it is the same unwanted dribble that spews forth over and over.

And Bob, don't say that my posts contained any personal attacks either, just a general one. And yes, down off of my soapbox I go.

Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:20 pm

porkchop wrote: Come on Bob, would you expect any less of me? You should have seen the post I was going to submit. At least this one doesn't contain the personal attacks that my previous rants have contained.

Do you get my point? He didn't ask for an opinion on OG vs. repop, he simply asked what would be the most wanted repop. I simply stated that this is what he wanted to know and that his quest to provide an affordable alternative is a wanted one. I also felt it necessary to state what I always do, it's completely unnecessary for one to open their mouth when it is the same unwanted dribble that spews forth over and over.

And Bob, don't say that my posts contained any personal attacks either, just a general one. And yes, down off of my soapbox I go.

Funny, I've read this whole thread and it looks like a fairly balanced and civil discussion to me. At least until this page.

If you feel that the OP's original message has been ignored, perhaps you might get this thread back on track by sharing your thoughts on accessories he might reproduce. In fact, why not get a list started?

1

2

3

4

5

6

If you need more space, just continue as required.

Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:49 pm

porkchop wrote: 50stuf wrote: Since I have a few connections in manufacturing in and out of the USA, and could reproduce an item, I am curious to know from you, the Samba membership what ONE item that you would like to see reproduced that isn't currently being made or offered?

Please stick to accessories if possible.
If you have a picture or actually own the item that would be great.

And to all of you who don't like reproductions and are die-hard sticklers for the original item, I wholeheartedly agree with your argument. But please remember that some items today are so scarce that only the lucky few and the wealthy are able to afford and possess them.

AND in my career, I have always tried to champion the average working Joe, who I consider the backbone of any culture. Without him any hobby like this would be left to the rich upper classes.

Plus if it were not for reproductions, you yourselves wouldn't be here on earth, right?

Thanks DAD, for having a big back seat in your 46 Packard.....haha

CH

Wow, nowhere in this post do I see the OP say, "Alright guys, let's trudge up the age old question of repop vs. OG." It amazes me how some uptight assholes will never just leave well enough alone. I understand that taking the time to hunt rare shit down is a thrill for some, but it does not mean that a quality repop shouldn't be available to the working class.Why don't you people that feel you have to screw up every thread like this by opening your mouths save your attitudes for someone who actually asks for your opinion on what you are all spouting off about.

Oh yeah, my vote is repop it all, nothing is sacred!

I'm an electrician....I can't get any more "working class" than that. I would rather sell my kidney or save up to buy the real stuff than put something "fake" on my car. Why would you want to be a "wanna be" or "poser" and buy some repro stuff and do a half ass job on your car :roll: Some "stock" parts just don't exist anymore so you have to use repro parts to finish a car....and I get that, but to go out and spend your hard earned cash on a repro steering wheel that you "really" don't need, I just don't understand, thats a luxury that is "really" not a luxury when it's not the "real deal"

Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:53 pm

Amen Steve! Working class or not...when I had no money and fought to pay my electric bill, I still saved every cent and bought OG parts. Repro was a definite no go.

Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:57 am

coad wrote:

Funny, I've read this whole thread and it looks like a fairly balanced and civil discussion to me. At least until this page.

If you feel that the OP's original message has been ignored, perhaps you might get this thread back on track by sharing your thoughts on accessories he might reproduce. In fact, why not get a list started?

1

2

3

4

5

6

If you need more space, just continue as required.

Funny, still looks like a fairly balanced and civilized discussion to me. I cannot personally tell you which accessory that I would like to be reproduced because I am still learning as to what's available out there. I can admit that I am ignorant of the accessory market, but that is why I lurk on all of the forums on this site, to learn more. I am sure that when my bug hit's the road in the condition that I want it, that I will be looking for some stuff here and there for it.

steven wood wrote:

I'm an electrician....I can't get any more "working class" than that. I would rather sell my kidney or save up to buy the real stuff than put something "fake" on my car. Why would you want to be a "wanna be" or "poser" and buy some repro stuff and do a half ass job on your car :roll: Some "stock" parts just don't exist anymore so you have to use repro parts to finish a car....and I get that, but to go out and spend your hard earned cash on a repro steering wheel that you "really" don't need, I just don't understand, thats a luxury that is "really" not a luxury when it's not the "real deal"

To some, it is not a status thing. If I go out and buy a repop steering wheel, it's because the style really turns my crank, not cause the elite have the real deal in their car and I wanna be like them. Nothing to do with a "luxury" and what right do you have to call someone a "wanna be" or a "poser" because they know what they like and are realistic about the fact that they can't afford it. Sounds sensible to me. I completely respect the desire for OG parts and accessories, but that doesn't mean to me that the STYLE (not status) shouldn't be available to all.

Oh yeah, I haven't seen these repop, but it doesn't mean they don't exist, but I would like to see the exterior mesh sun visors available. Highjack over.....................

Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:46 am

Repro mesh exterior sun visors do exist. Chris Morley sells them all the time on eBay and someone in South East Asia has them for sale quite often.

Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:50 am

Here you go.......

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=411949

He probably has the mesh ones as well.

Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:16 am

This is Morly........

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=16304

Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:24 am

The nice thing about the mesh ones (and maybe the other ones too) is that, strictly speaking, they aren't reproductions at all. Aren't they made by the same company in Australia that's been making them forever and just never stopped?

Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:36 am

coad wrote: The nice thing about the mesh ones (and maybe the other ones too) is that, strictly speaking, they aren't reproductions at all. Aren't they made by the same company in Australia that's been making them forever and just never stopped?
...And if the company HAD stopped and then restarted, wouldn't it be a "reissue"? (kind of like Wiking promo models)